If it's proven there's no god

Originally posted by sonship

The "proving of" His existence did not stop some from hating and conspiring to execute the Son of God.


I think it is a fallacy to think God always must manifest His reality by the miraculous.

This is irrelevant. Twhitehead and Finnegan made me realize something: every theist in this thread has hijacked and diverted this thread to something other than answering a very simple OP.

Suzianne resorted to accusing me of underhandedly attacking her faith.

You (Sonship) have discussed everything but the OP, posting incredibly long, irrelevant responses.

Fishhead (who I'm not sure is religious, but being an extremely right-wing conservative, it's very likely) resorted to detracting this thread by attempting to dispute the validity of a simple hypothetical.

All this diversion from the OP ("oh, what if we asked atheists about God existing, huh?) is sad. Even I didn't notice the deliberate diversion at first, when in trying to be fair to the other side, wasted a post trying explain Suzianne's rationale to Twhitehead. But I reread his remark about how not one theist even attempted to tackle the question, a point reiterated by Finnegan.

I don't know. Is this thread evidence that even the thought that the Christian god may not be real is too distressing for Christians to ponder? If we go by Suzianne's incredibly emotional response (and other theists on this thread) maybe it is.

Originally posted by RJHinds
If you can imagine that you don't exist or I can imagine that I don't exist, then it should be easy to imagine God not existing. However, I don't believe we can really imagine ourselves not existing anymore than we can imagine God not existing.

However, my belief may be just a product of my world view. What do you think?

That was almost a decent post... Until the "Smug ***" emoticon.

Do you now just type it out of habit, a reflex? Or do you actively think,
"Yes, I will be a Smug *** here? .... Don't answer that.

Imagining god doesn't exist is trivial, many if not most theists can do it..
atheists can certainly do it.

If you can't, or can't even imagine it being possible, then that is certainly
a failing of your world-view.

It doesn't matter for these purposes if god exists or not. The fact that you
purport to lack even the capacity to imagine a world in which god doesn't
exist speaks volumes about how defective your imagination is.

Originally posted by vivify
This is irrelevant. Twhitehead and Finnegan made me realize something: every theist in this thread has hijacked and diverted this thread to something other than answering a very simple OP.

Suzianne resorted to accusing me of underhandedly attacking her faith.

You (Sonship) have discussed everything but the OP, posting incredibly long, irrelevant re ...[text shortened]... e go by Suzianne's incredibly emotional response (and other theists on this thread) maybe it is.

It's fake distress. They love to feel persecuted, it's what gets them up in the morning.

Originally posted by vivify
This is irrelevant. Twhitehead and Finnegan made me realize something: every theist in this thread has hijacked and diverted this thread to something other than answering a very simple OP.

Suzianne resorted to accusing me of underhandedly attacking her faith.

You (Sonship) have discussed everything but the OP, posting incredibly long, irrelevant re ...[text shortened]... e go by Suzianne's incredibly emotional response (and other theists on this thread) maybe it is.

The problem for Christian theists is that the hypothetical is contrary to that world view. That means there is really no way a Christian can imagine such a thing.

Originally posted by vivify
This is irrelevant. Twhitehead and Finnegan made me realize something: every theist in this thread has hijacked and diverted this thread to something other than answering a very simple OP.

Suzianne resorted to accusing me of underhandedly attacking her faith.

You (Sonship) have discussed everything but the OP, posting incredibly long, irrelevant re ...[text shortened]... e go by Suzianne's incredibly emotional response (and other theists on this thread) maybe it is.

I think I did contribute constructively to the thread. How so?

I think I demonstrated that some person's alledged "proof" may be consistent, logical, well thought out, well argued, apparently everything in order yet simply not a representation of reality.

Originally posted by sonship
I think I did contribute constructively to the thread. How so?

I think I demonstrated that some person's alledged "proof" may be consistent, logical, well thought out, well argued, apparently everything in order yet simply not a representation of reality.

no, you didnt take part. as i pointed out at the time you questioned the premise of the hypothetical. the hypothetical state the god has been proven not to exist...if you can question this, then either it hasnt been proven (which would be in convention of the hypothetical) or you are saying that your reaction would be illogical (in that you would still challenge something that had been 100% proven)


if you honestly want to answer the question then tell us how it would effect your life/what would you do - if god had been proven 100% not to exist?

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I don't know how one could certainly disprove the possible existence of
a supernatural being. I know that it could not be done in mathematics.

Nothing about reality can be proven to a certainty.

Thus if we allow things to be proven at all, then such proofs must be probabilistic.

Probabilistic Bayesian 'proofs beyond any reasonable doubt' that the Christian god
doesn't exist are trivially easy to formulate.

Making it general for any non-specific gods is harder... partly because the definition of
god is so nebulous... But not impossible.


People keep making out like this is hard to do, it really isn't.

Originally posted by googlefudge

I don't know how one could certainly disprove the possible existence of
a supernatural being. I know that it could not be done in mathematics.

Nothing about reality can be proven to a certainty.

Thus if we allow things to be proven at all, then such proofs must be probabilistic.

Probabilistic Bayesian 'proofs beyond any reasonab ...[text shortened]... ous... But not impossible.


People keep making out like this is hard to do, it really isn't.

i think it stems from a fear that to imagine, is to question and to question is to doubt and doubters..................burn in helllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i think it stems from a fear that to imagine, is to question and to question is to doubt and doubters..................burn in helllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I get why theists don't like it...

What bugs me is all the people who DON'T believe in gods, who insist that it's
impossible to reasonable answer these questions.

The "strong agnostic" position, that 'not only can you not know if gods exist,
but that it's impossible to know if they exist.'

It's bunk, but those claiming it, claim it with an air of superiority because they
think their position is more rigorous or intellectually justifiable or some such.

It's basically a version of the argument from ignorance. Because THEY can't
think how you might go about disproving the existence of a deity, they claim that
it CANNOT be done at all.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Why should I be 'fair' to arguments I can blow to pieces?

ID and fine-tuning are fairly trivially easy to shred, they are demonstrable faulty reasoning.

Any arguments built on them are thus equally faulty.

You cannot build VALID 'probabilistic Bayesian proofs' that gods exist.

This isn't a "everyone can have a valid point of view" situation.

One side is right, the other is wrong, and we know this because we can prove it.
Their arguments are not convincing because they are wrong.