If you are not willing to be wrong, can you ever truly say you seek the truth? If your bias is so strong that you will defend it to the death without fail, will your bias be all you can ever know, or better said, believe? If we are always finding fault, can we ever see the good? If we are forever finding good only, can we ever see the bad? Jesus talked about things and said that those with eyes that see. How strong is our bias? How strong is your bias if, when you are so set in your ways that any disagreement seems like hate to you?
@KellyJay saidThe people who have doubts are not the ones who build gulags and put people in them. The people who have doubts are not the ones who build concentration camps and put people in them. The people who have doubts are not the ones who build Alligator Alcatraz and put people in them. The people who have doubts are not the ones who build pyres and burn people at the stake for heresy.
If you are not willing to be wrong, can you ever truly say you seek the truth? If your bias is so strong that you will defend it to the death without fail, will your bias be all you can ever know, or better said, believe? If we are always finding fault, can we ever see the good? If we are forever finding good only, can we ever see the bad? Jesus talked about things and said ...[text shortened]... rong is your bias if, when you are so set in your ways that any disagreement seems like hate to you?
It's the people who think they have absolute truth who do that sort of thing.
@moonbus saidPeople who view disagreement as hate or caused by those who are less than, build them, and cancel and kill.
The people who have doubts are not the ones who build gulags and put people in them. The people who have doubts are not the ones who build concentration camps and put people in them. The people who have doubts are not the ones who build Alligator Alcatraz and put people in them. The people who have doubts are not the ones who build pyres and burn people at the stake for heresy.
It's the people who think they have absolute truth who do that sort of thing.
@KellyJay saidThe characteristic those sorts of people all have in common is, they think they have absolute truth, they think they cannot possibly be wrong, they are immune to doubt.
People who view disagreement as hate or caused by those who are less than, build them, and cancel and kill.
"The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
-- Bertrand Russell
@moonbus saidI believe in absolutes, but I know I do not have a handle on the absolute; like everyone else, I’m working it out. What I am talking about are those who dismiss, cancel, repeatedly belittle, and demean others over disagreements, so that no matter what, they always see flaws, nothing but flaws, or always defend their own side, never seeing their flaws. That mindset treats people who should be seen as individuals as a group to be accepted or rejected with great prejudice. More than a few times here, people declare what I think without a clue, but state it because they believe they know my heart on all matters. If you hate all people because of this or that about them, you are not looking at people; you are looking only at the one thing that sets you off. You'll never see anything other than that one thing.
The characteristic those sorts of people all have in common is, they think they have absolute truth, they think they cannot possibly be wrong, they are immune to doubt.
"The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
-- Bertrand Russell
@KellyJay saidWhich one of us constantly reminds everyone here how flawed he thinks everyone is?
I believe in absolutes, but I know I do not have a handle on the absolute; like everyone else, I’m working it out. What I am talking about are those who dismiss, cancel, repeatedly belittle, and demean others over disagreements, so that no matter what, they always see flaws, nothing but flaws, or always defend their own side, never seeing their flaws. That mindset treats pe ...[text shortened]... ooking only at the one thing that sets you off. You'll never see anything other than that one thing.
@KellyJay wrote:
I believe in absolutes, but I know I do not have a handle on the absolute ...
Since you admit that you are not in possession of the absolute yourself, then you do not know there is any absolute. It's just one of the many things you happen to believe, on faith, without proof, and you could be wrong about it.
@moonbus saidAdmitting I don’t know everything does not mean I can not know anything at all. It does mean I can use logic with what we can know to get to certainty about some things. If you reject that, are saying nothing can be known, are you rejecting all knowledge?
@KellyJay wrote:
I believe in absolutes, but I know I do not have a handle on the absolute ...
Since you admit that you are not in possession of the absolute yourself, then you do not know there is any absolute. It's just one of the many things you happen to believe, on faith, without proof, and you could be wrong about it.
@KellyJay saidNo, I do not reject all knowledge. Only absolutist claims. I have no objection to people who say they speak to God, but when someone claims God speaks to him, we have good reason to be skeptical.
Admitting I don’t know everything does not mean I can not know anything at all. It does mean I can use logic with what we can know to get to certainty about some things. If you reject that, are saying nothing can be known, are you rejecting all knowledge?
@moonbus saidYour stand falls flat right away. You can say there are absolutes; that is an absolute statement about absolutes, it is not a contradiction, but your stand is. Suggesting there are no absolutes is an absolute statement that disagrees with itself; it is a contradiction. All truth belongs to God, who is truth. When we try to go against the truth, we can, but we do ourselves harm in the process.
No, I do not reject all knowledge. Only absolutist claims. I have no objection to people who say they speak to God, but when someone claims God speaks to him, we have good reason to be skeptical.
@moonbus saidWhy would that be a reason to be skeptical on its face? Even if someone is speaking to their god, who is a piece of wood, are they not speaking to their god? If you are going to be skeptical about who God is, or who the gods are, you should at least be a little more specific about why these are not what people claim they are.
No, I do not reject all knowledge. Only absolutist claims. I have no objection to people who say they speak to God, but when someone claims God speaks to him, we have good reason to be skeptical.
I'd also point out that if god is a created being in our imagination for most, that does not mean that God isn't real, and who the scriptures portray Him as.
If our beliefs are pointed to Him; if they begin and end with us, then you have a point; if they begin outside of us, then you do not.