1. Joined
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    22 Aug '05 13:37
    If you can believe that God has no beginning, why do you totally discount the fact that the universe has no beginning?

    Because every substance has to have a beginning right? Maybe the answer is simply that God has no beginning because God does not exist.
  2. Standard memberdj2becker
    Tiger's ghost
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    22 Aug '05 13:57
    Originally posted by iamroot
    If you can believe that God has no beginning, why do you totally discount the fact that the universe has no beginning?

    Because every substance has to have a beginning right? Maybe the answer is simply that God has no beginning because God does not exist.
    If you can believe that God has no beginning, why do you totally discount the fact that the universe has no beginning?

    Good question. The answer is rather simple though. It can be proven that the universe has a beginnig.

    Because every substance has to have a beginning right?

    Nope. God does not have a begining. By definition God is eternal.

    Maybe the answer is simply that God has no beginning because God does not exist.

    Would this mean that the universe does not exist if it did not have a begining?
  3. Standard memberRemoved
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    22 Aug '05 14:25
    Originally posted by iamroot
    If you can believe that God has no beginning, why do you totally discount the fact that the universe has no beginning?

    Because every substance has to have a beginning right? Maybe the answer is simply that God has no beginning because God does not exist.
    Because God created the universe.
  4. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    22 Aug '05 14:37
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    [b]If you can believe that God has no beginning, why do you totally discount the fact that the universe has no beginning?

    Good question. The answer is rather simple though. It can be proven that the universe has a beginnig.

    Because every substance has to have a beginning right?

    Nope. God does not have a begining. By definition God is e ...[text shortened]... ot exist.[/b]

    Would this mean that the universe does not exist if it did not have a begining?[/b]
    So you have decided you know the answer to both questions,
    how old is the universe and how old is god?
    You have answered the easy question, how old is the universe
    presumably based on the microwave background radiation studies
    which point to the universe beginning about 14 billion years ago.
    That based on rational thought.
    Then you start being hypocritical and throw out all that rationality
    and just DECLARE that god is eternal. I can declare anything I want,
    GOD IS ETERNAL. GOD GREW UP IN BETHLEHAM, PENNSYLVANIA
    GOD IS DEAD. GOD NEVER EXISTED.
    So why do you use rational thought on the one hand but simple
    declarations totally unprovable on the other? Oh yeah, you have FAITH. Forgot, that beats rational thought every time.
  5. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    22 Aug '05 14:43
    Originally posted by iamroot
    If you can believe that God has no beginning, why do you totally discount the fact that the universe has no beginning?

    Because every substance has to have a beginning right? Maybe the answer is simply that God has no beginning because God does not exist.
    Why do you insist the universe had no beginning?
    It has been shown pretty conclusively the universe is less than
    14 billion years old, pretty darned old but nothing like infinite
    like you suggest.
    On the other hand, there are other theories suggesting our universe
    is not the only one around and our big bang thingy was only a tiny
    pimple in the "real" universe. In that sense, all calculations of the
    age of the "real" universe goes out the window, since it may in fact
    have had a beginning in time so remote as to be nearly the same
    thing as infinite, if that is the case, it still is not in fact infinite.
    Right now there is just no way of knowing and maybe even if the
    human race gets through all these crises going on here on earth,
    a million years from now we may be no closer to understanding the
    true age of the multiverse (the 'real' universe which our bubble is
    only a blip)
  6. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    22 Aug '05 15:041 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why do you insist the universe had no beginning?
    It has been shown pretty conclusively the universe is less than
    14 billion years old, pretty darned old but nothing like infinite
    like you suggest.
    On the other hand, there are other theories suggesting our universe
    is not the only one around and our big bang thingy was only a tiny
    pimple in the "real ...[text shortened]... tanding the
    true age of the multiverse (the 'real' universe which our bubble is
    only a blip)
    His point is that it is just as logical to say that the universe has no beginning as it is to say that god has no beginning. To say that god caused the universe solves nothing.

    It has been 14 billion years since the big bang. But what came before that? There are some theories that suggest the universe is a series of big bangs and big crunches repeating themselves. This would leave us with an infinite universe with no need for a god.
  7. Joined
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    22 Aug '05 15:10
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why do you insist the universe had no beginning?
    It has been shown pretty conclusively the universe is less than
    14 billion years old, pretty darned old but nothing like infinite
    like you suggest.
    On the other hand, there are other theories suggesting our universe
    is not the only one around and our big bang thingy was only a tiny
    pimple in the "real ...[text shortened]... tanding the
    true age of the multiverse (the 'real' universe which our bubble is
    only a blip)
    actually, you are right. I had a brain fart :-P I meant to say "Why do you totally discount the idea that the universe has no beginning?" idea instead of the word fact. I actually started to type the word fact and decided to reword it... I guess I reworded it in my mind, but not on screen... I do that sometimes :-P
  8. Joined
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    22 Aug '05 15:16
    here is another question i would like to know: what if the universe is shown itself on multiple levels. There is the microscopic level, which everyone knows of, and then our level, what about the level above us.... What if our solar system is just a little bit of energy in an EXTREMELY big table. Maybe we are mircroscopic to other beings 😉.... Just a random thought i had.
  9. Joined
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    22 Aug '05 15:19
    Originally posted by iamroot
    here is another question i would like to know: what if the universe is shown itself on multiple levels. There is the microscopic level, which everyone knows of, and then our level, what about the level above us.... What if our solar system is just a little bit of energy in an EXTREMELY big table. Maybe we are mircroscopic to other beings 😉.... Just a random thought i had.
    What do you mean "What if..." ?
  10. Standard memberHalitose
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    22 Aug '05 18:36
    Originally posted by rwingett
    His point is that it is just as logical to say that the universe has no beginning as it is to say that god has no beginning. To say that god caused the universe solves nothing.

    It has been 14 billion years since the big bang. But what came before that? There are some theories that suggest the universe is a series of big bangs and big crunches repeating themselves. This would leave us with an infinite universe with no need for a god.
    It sounds like there is a vested interest in the universe being eternal, because even before the big bang, never mind the big bang on loop mode, you step out of science's door and into the world of speculation. Then you are on exactly the same footing as the bloke who says that God created it. The essential ingredient on both sides being faith.
  11. Joined
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    23 Aug '05 13:25
    Originally posted by Halitose
    It sounds like there is a vested interest in the universe being eternal, because even before the big bang, never mind the big bang on loop mode, you step out of science's door and into the world of speculation. Then you are on exactly the same footing as the bloke who says that God created it. The essential ingredient on both sides being faith.
    i do not have faith in it, i just think of it as a theory. one that i think is the most likely to be true.
  12. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
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    23 Aug '05 17:01
    Originally posted by iamroot
    i do not have faith in it, i just think of it as a theory. one that i think is the most likely to be true.
    Sure. But isn't the other option also a theory?
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