If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing.

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]I loved my parents. I also had a certain amount of fear of them if I misbehaved.

I loved some of my college instructors. I also had a certain amount of fear, if not for their person, for their position and legitimate authority.

Until Satan is cast into the eternal fire, I will mingle a certain amount of fear with my love for God.
Yeah, my bad! [b ...[text shortened]... k is meant by the statement "I don't believe your god exists"?
Are you afraid of Voldemort?[/b]

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Yeah, my bad! eternal gnashing of teeth flailing about in a sea of fire is totally equivalent to losing your pocket money or a 1 week grounding. Loving the way you compare like for like terms there Jaywill.
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I do not mean completely equivalent consequences.
I mean in principle.

Much the same way as the commandment "Honor your father and your mother" the fifth of the ten commandments is equivalent to the honor one should render to God.

The priniciple of honor and fear towards parents is like that of honor and fear toward God.


I do not think we know all that eternal separation from God implies. It could be that the language is meant to convey something that should be avoided at all costs.

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Fear of what!?...what do you think is meant by the statement "I don't believe your god exists"?
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This is not a personal gain to me, "Fear my god or else".

Have you ever read the biography of some person and feared to come to the conclusion of life as that person did ?

I admire the Queen of England. But one of them died saying "All my posessions for a moment of time." I don't want to come to that kind of end - being fabulously wealthy, famous, enfluencial only to realize just a moment of TIME, would be worth it all.

I greatly admire Johannas Brahms, the great German composer. But I don't want lie bursting into tears on my deathbed.

I don't even want to pass like Albert Einstien died. I heard he was muttering "There's no time. There's no eternity". I have not been able to confirm that rumor yet.

Alexander the Great requested that his hands be left hanging outside his coffin so everyone could see his hands. Do you know why ? Alexander the Great conquered the known world. But many believe that his empty unhappiness led to his drinking. And some believe his drinking alchohol to be the cause of his death.

He wanted all the people to see that he went to death emptyhanded, having NOTHING. NOTHING, NOTHING.

I don't want to come to that kind of end. These is the kind of sober fear of missing God I speak of. God is one for Whom a greater presence cannot be imagined.

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Are you afraid of Voldemort
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lol.
Dar Vader per se I do not fear, nor Voldemort.

I fear being consumed by nonsense and madness. I fear preoccupying my mind with time wasting novelties of an empty over entertained generation.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=================================
Yeah, my bad! eternal gnashing of teeth flailing about in a sea of fire is totally equivalent to losing your pocket money or a 1 week grounding. Loving the way you compare like for like terms there Jaywill.
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I do not mean completely equivalent consequences.
I m ng my mind with time wasting novelties of an empty over entertained generation.[/b]

I do not mean completely equivalent consequences.
I mean in principle.

Much the same way as the commandment [b] "Honor your father and your mother" the fifth of the ten commandments is equivalent to the honor one should render to God.

The priniciple of honor and fear towards parents is like that of honor and fear toward God.


I do not think we know all that eternal separation from God implies. It could be that the language is meant to convey something that should be avoided at all costs.
[/b]

Well you're not addressing the notion of "fear" in
Many theists do 'follow' (or fail to ask questions) through fear. Fear of eternal torture if they turn away...


This is not a personal gain to me, "Fear my god or else".

Have you ever read the biography of some person and feared to come to the conclusion of life as that person did ?

I admire the Queen of England. But one of them died saying "All my posessions for a moment of time." I don't want to come to that kind of end - being fabulously wealthy, famous, enfluencial only to realize just a moment of TIME, would be worth it all.

I greatly admire Johannas Brahms, the great German composer. But I don't want lie bursting into tears on my deathbed.

I don't even want to pass like Albert Einstien died. I heard he was muttering "There's no time. There's no eternity". I have not been able to confirm that rumor yet.

Alexander the Great requested that his hands be left hanging outside his coffin so everyone could see his hands. Do you know why ? Alexander the Great conquered the known world. But many believe that his empty unhappiness led to his drinking. And some believe his drinking alchohol to be the cause of his death.

He wanted all the people to see that he went to death emptyhanded, having NOTHING. NOTHING, NOTHING.

I don't want to come to that kind of end. These is the kind of sober fear of missing God I speak of. God is one for Whom a greater presence cannot be imagined.
You didn't answer my question:
what do you think is meant by the statement "I don't believe your god exists"?

Dar Vader per se I do not fear, nor Voldemort.
Everyone is scared of Voldemort...why the deception on your part?

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]I do not mean completely equivalent consequences.
I mean in principle.

Much the same way as the commandment [b] "Honor your father and your mother" the fifth of the ten commandments is equivalent to the honor one should render to God.

The priniciple of honor and fear towards parents is like that of honor and fear toward God.


I do not think w .[/b]
Everyone is scared of Voldemort...why the deception on your part?[/b]

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Well you're not addressing the notion of "fear" in
Many theists do 'follow' (or fail to ask questions) through fear. Fear of eternal torture if they turn away...
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Speaking for myself. Since I have been saved in Jesus Christ, I have no concern for eternal damnation. There is no need for the believer in Christ to fear eternal damnation.

But God has many ways to deal with His own children aside from eternal punishment. The assumption that because I have passed from eternal jugment into eternal life, I need have no fear at all, I think, is unbiblical.

"The time has come for judgement to BEGIN ... at the house of God."( 1 Peter 4:17). Judgment BEGINS with those who are suppose to know better.
This is not a judgment for eternal perdition or eternal redemption. Yet it is still a judgment for reward or punishment.

Though perfect love casts out fear, according to the Apostle John, I am not perfected yet. There are many ways in which my Righteous Father can still deal with me apart from an eternal never ending dealing.

He is not bound or limited in His disciplining of me just because I am eternally saved from the lake of fire.

But there is something else. I think somewhere it says in Proverbs 19:9 that the fear of the Lord is clean or is pure.

One learns to be very grateful for the fear of the Lord. Do you think a person could be THANKFUL for the fear of God ? My answer to you would be, yes indeed. The fear of the Lord renders one pure. The fear of the Lord renders one to check his or her innermost motives.

Maybe before MAN I could get away with a lot of things. But God knows everything. He misses nothing. And the fear of the One Who knows everything and from Whom nothing can be hidden, is a purifying force of inner integrity.

The fear of the Lord hold in check, not only the outward action, but the inner motive. I may fool you. I may fool many people. I cannot fool God.

One learns in certain situations of temptation to be very thankful, for the purifying fear of the Lord.

The fear of the Lord is clean, enlightening the eyes. I came to a point where I bowed my head and said "Thankyou Lord. Thankyou for putting a certain amount of the fear of God in my inner being."

Where many faltered and failed, the fear of the Lord preserved others from ruin. We need to be healed from the inside out. The Lord Jesus Christ does a thoroughly INSIDE Job.

It is not to be despised. And the fear of God is a part of that salvation.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=====================================
Well you're not addressing the notion of "fear" in
Many theists do 'follow' (or fail to ask questions) through fear. Fear of eternal torture if they turn away...
=======================================

Speaking for myself. Since I have been saved in Jesus Christ, I have no concern for eternal da ...[text shortened]... DE Job.

It is not to be despised. And the fear of God is a part of that salvation.[/b]

Speaking for myself. Since I have been saved in Jesus Christ, I have no concern for eternal damnation. There is no need for the believer in Christ to fear eternal damnation.
Oh? and what do you think happens to believers who "lose their faith"?

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]Speaking for myself. Since I have been saved in Jesus Christ, I have no concern for eternal damnation. There is no need for the believer in Christ to fear eternal damnation.
Oh? and what do you think happens to believers who "lose their faith"?[/b]

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Oh? and what do you think happens to believers who "lose their faith"?
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When one receives the Spirit of Jesus Christ into their human spirit, they are born of God. They are "born again".

www.regenerated.net

Birth is not growth. Birth is the initiation of the process of growth. Growth may be arrested. Growth may be stunted. But no one can reverse the process of being born.

So a person "born again" cannot be unborn. Once birth has taken place, no amount of "losing faith" or "backsliding" can cause a regenerated person to become "unborn" spiritually.

Paul spoke of co-workers who did pay attention to their consciences and made "shipwreck" of the Christian faith. They have to return eventually. They cannot be backslidden forever. Nor can they be un- eteranally redeemed once eternally redeemed.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
Oh? and what do you think happens to believers who "lose their faith"?
======================================

When one receives the Spirit of Jesus Christ into their human spirit, they are born of God. They are "born again".

www.regenerated.net

Birth is not growth. Birth is the initiat kslidden forever. Nor can they be un- eteranally redeemed once eternally redeemed.[/b]

There is much you assert, whilst little you justify. I could carry on and pick holes in this post, but I'd only get another preachy reply (that answers none of my questions) in your next.

Your efforts to proselytize are wasted on me :]

Originally posted by Agerg
There is much you assert, whilst little you justify. I could carry on and pick holes in this post, but I'd only get another preachy reply (that answers none of my questions) in your next.

Your efforts to proselytize would be much better spent on another forum member :]

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There is much you assert, whilst little you justify. I could carry on and pick holes in this post, but I'd only get another preachy reply (that answers none of my questions) in your next.

Your efforts to proselytize would be much better spent on another forum member :]
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I have no intention of wasting a lot of time on you Agerg. My answer was not even that much for YOUR benefit. It was more for the benefit of some reading along who might be helped.

Secondly, I preach the gospel and announce the good news that people may believe. I am not interested in proselytes. If you have nothing worth telling people as good news that does not mean everyone else is "proselytizing."

Lastly, about "picking holes".

This subject about security of eternal salvation is probably the most rehashed, redebated, revisited subject among some people who handle the Bible. The number of times any discussion on spiritual matters gravitates to a discussion on whether there is assurance of eternal salvation or not, never ceases to amaze me.

So, I don't plan get into a long debate on your "holes", especially given your career skeptic frame of reference. If I sensed someone was really spiritually hungry to progress with Jesus, I might spend some time to discuss such supposed "holes". But not with a career skeptic like you.

Once born again, a man cannot be un-born again. Quite objectively speaking, I know of no Arminian theology argument that can defeat this. And I speak without prejudice or preference. I would follow the evidence to the truth. I honestly know of no Arminian theology "hole" which can overthrow the assurance of eternal salvation.