1. SubscriberFMF
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    02 Apr '15 08:27
    "Sins" aside ~ by which I mean acts that are regarded by theologians and religious people as transgressions of God's will ~ the notion of "immoral thoughts" is a misnomer. "Morality" is a code that governs human interaction ~ and thoughts that do not lead to immoral deeds cannot be deemed as being immoral. Your take on this?
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Apr '15 08:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Sins" aside ~ by which I mean acts that are regarded by theologians and religious people as transgressions of God's will ~ the notion of "immoral thoughts" is a misnomer. "Morality" is a code that governs human interaction ~ and thoughts that do not lead to immoral deeds cannot be deemed as being immoral. Your take on this?
    I can fantasise about committing the perfect crime;
    robbing the bank or killing my annoying neighbour.
    I don't think these "thought crimes" are immoral.
  3. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    02 Apr '15 11:32
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I can fantasise about committing the perfect crime;
    robbing the bank or killing my annoying neighbour.
    I don't think these "thought crimes" are immoral.
    Perhaps, but if it is only fantasy and not immoral, you might as well do both and fantasise about robbing a bank 'and' killing your annoying neighbour.

    Wait, you don't live at number 22 Vine Street Bognor Regis do you?!?
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 Apr '15 19:17
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I can fantasise about committing the perfect crime;
    robbing the bank or killing my annoying neighbour.
    I don't think these "thought crimes" are immoral.
    However, one should repent and attempt to eliminate evil or immoral thoughts.
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    03 Apr '15 07:04
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Perhaps, but if it is only fantasy and not immoral, you might as well do both and fantasise about robbing a bank 'and' killing your annoying neighbour.

    I prefer to savour my fantasies as singular events.

    Who would drink Remy Martin, Bollinger and Adnam's Broadside in one sitting!
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    03 Apr '15 07:30
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I prefer to savour my fantasies as singular events.

    Who would drink Remy Martin, Bollinger and Adnam's Broadside in one sitting!
    Difficult to argue with that.

    🙂
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    03 Apr '15 14:50
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Sins" aside ~ by which I mean acts that are regarded by theologians and religious people as transgressions of God's will ~ the notion of "immoral thoughts" is a misnomer. "Morality" is a code that governs human interaction ~ and thoughts that do not lead to immoral deeds cannot be deemed as being immoral. Your take on this?
    If the deed is considered immoral, then why not the thought?

    Every deed is preceded by a thought. Does the absence of the deed make the thought exempt from moral obligation?
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    03 Apr '15 15:17
    Originally posted by josephw
    If the deed is considered immoral, then why not the thought?

    Every deed is preceded by a thought. Does the absence of the deed make the thought exempt from moral obligation?
    I think, as humans, we have more control of our actions then we do our thoughts.

    If i tell you 'don't think about tomatoes', chances are you will think about tomatoes. If i tell not to poke the cat with a stick, you will hopefully be more able to prevent yourself from doing so.

    I have a client who feels constantly guilty for the dark thoughts he has about hurting people. He has however never acted upon these thoughts and i believe there is a huge chasm between a thought and an action.

    You are right of course that every deed is preceded by a thought; but not every thought leads to a deed. If it did, we would all be in trouble. ;o)
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Apr '15 16:441 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I think, as humans, we have more control of our actions then we do our thoughts.

    If i tell you 'don't think about tomatoes', chances are you will think about tomatoes. If i tell not to poke the cat with a stick, you will hopefully be more able to prevent yourself from doing so.

    I have a client who feels constantly guilty for the dark thoughts ...[text shortened]... by a thought; but not every thought leads to a deed. If it did, we would all be in trouble. ;o)
    I guess the moral of the story is that it is better to think good thoughts than bad ones. 😏
  10. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    04 Apr '15 00:18
    Originally posted by josephw
    If the deed is considered immoral, then why not the thought?

    Every deed is preceded by a thought. Does the absence of the deed make the thought exempt from moral obligation?
    yes.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Apr '15 00:39
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    You are right of course that every deed is preceded by a thought; but not every thought leads to a deed. If it did, we would all be in trouble. ;o)
    And indeed we are.

    That is why we all need a Savior, whose innocence enabled him to be our intermediary and to take on the sins of the world in our place and enable us to enter the Kingdom of God.
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Apr '15 00:41
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    yes.
    And thank you for bottling the essence of why there is atheism.
  13. Standard memberDeepThought
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    04 Apr '15 00:421 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    If the deed is considered immoral, then why not the thought?

    Every deed is preceded by a thought. Does the absence of the deed make the thought exempt from moral obligation?
    Who is braver, the one who dashes in recklessly or the one who fears but acts in spite of their fear?
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Apr '15 00:50
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Who is braver, the one who dashes in recklessly or the one who fears but acts in spite of their fear?
    Could you be even a little more specific? This question is so vague as to have any number of answers.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    04 Apr '15 01:171 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    If the deed is considered immoral, then why not the thought?

    Every deed is preceded by a thought. Does the absence of the deed make the thought exempt from moral obligation?
    Well I've laid out my argument in the OP ~ and thus answered your two questions above ~ so feel free to argue the opposite if you want.
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