1. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 09:43
    The anecdotes of the Ancient Greeks are tell telling, so I share some of them with you all:

    Someone said to Aristippus that the notorious courtesan Lais does not love him, but pretends that he loves him. Aristippus replied:
    “Nor wine or fish love me, but I do enjoy them.”

    A rich father asked Aristippus to teach his son. The philosopher told him he wanted 500 drachmas for the lessons. The father considered the amount excessive.
    “With so much money”, he said, “I could buy an animal.”
    “Buy it”, Aristippus replied, “so you 'll have two.”

    Somebody asked his wife:
    “What do you want us to do, το eat or το make love?”
    “Whatever you want, however we have no bread.”

    Someone said Diogenes:
    “Your fellow citizens condemned you to exile.”
    The philosopher replied:
    “And I condemn them to stay in their place.”

    When Diogenes saw a clumsy archer, he stood in front of the target, telling his fellow citizens that were looking him in disbelief:
    “Oh well it's the only way to survive from his arrows.”

    Diogenes sought alms from a statue. When he was asked why he was doing such a thing, he replied:
    “This way I will not be disappointed by the insensitivity of the people.”

    A bald citizen was calling Diogenes names. When he was done, Diogenes told him:
    “I have nothing more to say but “bravo” to your hair, for they got rid of that empty skull of yours."

    They were pushing Philip, the king of Macedonia, to banish a citizen who was always criticizing him severely. Philip said:
    “Υou serious? You really want me to give him the chance to accuse me in other towns too?”

    Someone asked Antisthenes what kind of woman would be suitable for marriage. The philosopher replied:
    “It ‘s tricky; if you marry a beautiful one you will have her shared with others, and if she is ugly it will be like your punishment is imposed.”

    Aristotle was told that someone insulted him. The philosopher replied:
    “I don’t care at all. When I ‘m absent, he can even whip me.’

    The incongruity of the characters of Socrates and his wife Xanthippe was perfectly known. So once a student asked his teacher:
    “Why, Socrates, are you with Xanthippe?”
    “I ‘m training. If I could manage to stand her, I could stand everything.”
    😵
  2. Account suspended
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    07 Jan '13 10:17
    Originally posted by black beetle
    The anecdotes of the Ancient Greeks are tell telling, so I share some of them with you all:

    Someone said to Aristippus that the notorious courtesan Lais does not love him, but pretends that he loves him. Aristippus replied:
    “Nor wine or fish love me, but I do enjoy them.”

    A rich father asked Aristippus to teach his son. The philosopher told him h ...[text shortened]... h Xanthippe?”
    “I ‘m training. If I could manage to stand her, I could stand everything.”
    😵
    Its brilliant, I loved asking alms from a statue, LOL.
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
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    07 Jan '13 10:411 edit
    Originally posted by black beetle

    The anecdotes of the Ancient Greeks are tell telling, so I share some of them with you all:

    Someone said to Aristippus that the notorious courtesan Lais does not love him, but pretends that he loves him. Aristippus replied:
    “Nor wine or fish love me, but I do enjoy them.”

    A rich father asked Aristippus to teach his son. The philosopher told him he with Xanthippe?”
    “I ‘m training. If I could manage to stand her, I could stand everything.”
    😵
    Thanks, Sicilian Beetle. Welcome change of pace. Thinking that if RHP had been born a few years earlier, believe (have confidence

    in the unseen and empirically unproven fact) that Diogenes would surely have been the undisputed Champion of Thumbs Down.
    .
  4. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 11:27
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Thanks, Sicilian Beetle. Welcome change of pace. Thinking that if RHP had been born a few years earlier, believe (have confidence

    in the unseen and empirically unproven fact) that Diogenes would surely have been the undisputed Champion of Thumbs Down.
    .
    Hi Boston lad!

    Me sees no change of pace –and Diogenes’ zen and his emphasis on detachment are notorious, so thumbs up or down would merely mean nothing to him (but I would persuade him to live in a whisky jar of Arran straight from the cask, he could well lick the wood and get high)
    😵
  5. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 11:28
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Its brilliant, I loved asking alms from a statue, LOL.
    Yes😵
  6. Dublin Ireland
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    07 Jan '13 12:19
    Originally posted by black beetle
    The anecdotes of the Ancient Greeks are tell telling, so I share some of them with you all:

    Someone said to Aristippus that the notorious courtesan Lais does not love him, but pretends that he loves him. Aristippus replied:
    “Nor wine or fish love me, but I do enjoy them.”

    A rich father asked Aristippus to teach his son. The philosopher told him h ...[text shortened]... h Xanthippe?”
    “I ‘m training. If I could manage to stand her, I could stand everything.”
    😵
    If it is any consolation to you, I gave your post a thumbs up.
    Not because of you, but because of the great cradle of civilisation
    that is Greece. I do not hate your nation or it's people.
    I have no wish to antagonise them or you.

    But Greece will have to answer for it's own deeds in recent decades.
    No one else in Europe is to blame for the problems of Greece.

    I for one hope that this great nation can overcome it's problems and once
    again become the respected nation it once was. The Greeks are a proud people
    and deservedly so. A warrior race of old they stood tall in the face of tyranny.

    We here in Ireland have our own austerity to deal with and yes we have our
    own difficulties too with the German Government.

    If you took offence by our last conversation it was not intended.

    I hope for better times for the Greek people when they can be happy again
    under the Hellenic sunshine.
  7. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 13:46
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    If it is any consolation to you, I gave your post a thumbs up.
    Not because of you, but because of the great cradle of civilisation
    that is Greece. I do not hate your nation or it's people.
    I have no wish to antagonise them or you.

    But Greece will have to answer for it's own deeds in recent decades.
    No one else in Europe is to blame for the pr ...[text shortened]... better times for the Greek people when they can be happy again
    under the Hellenic sunshine.
    When you have no hatred, then feel free to post without hatred.
    I took no offence by our last conversation, I just evaluated it. As regards the scientific predictions, we have a different view, but this is only natural amongst the people.

    We Greeks are many things, we are capable for everything, and most often we cause big troubles and damages to ourselves and to other people. Nowdays our politicians are corrupted, and instead of a strong progressive party that would promote at last justice for all the citizens we dully cultivated a brand new Neonazi party. The fact that we permit our governments to be corrupted, it means that the majority of my fellow Greeks are corrupted. If I could, I would leave along with my wife my home country and we would live amongst good friends at Oregon, Ohio or Bonnie Scotland. I wish I could die up north. Greece that I love and respect is buried in my heart and I can hardly find traces of it around me.

    Many governments worldwide triggered the problems of Greece that we all Greeks face today, but the most responsible of all are the differ Greek governments since 1974. Mind you, the philosopher Antisthenes advised the Athenians to nominate the donkeys… horses, with their vote. When he was told that this was beyond logic, Antisthenes replied:
    “Why? You do vote specific citizens for generals although they have not even the slightest education.”
    The debt of my country around 2020 is estimated to be about 400 billion euros, and the total amount that is illegally deposited from the Greek elite into many Swiss and other banks all around the dial since 1999 is 600+ billion euros. We citizens have to pay this debt, and I can hardly understand the reason why we stand still; I bow to the citizens of Island.
    I don’t know if we will finally be able to overcome our problems within the next 20-30 years, although the gas fields under Aegeon and Ionion Pelagos, and around Creta are worth of 550+ billion euros. With governments like the ones we vote, everything will keep up being out of order. Somebody nuke us please…

    I do see warriors around me, but warriors need a leader in order to come up with a “No”. There is no Leader for the time being, and our case cannot be solved by an angry mob with shillelaghs😵
  8. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    07 Jan '13 13:48
    Originally posted by black beetle
    The anecdotes of the Ancient Greeks are tell telling, so I share some of them with you all:

    Someone said to Aristippus that the notorious courtesan Lais does not love him, but pretends that he loves him. Aristippus replied:
    “Nor wine or fish love me, but I do enjoy them.”

    A rich father asked Aristippus to teach his son. The philosopher told him h ...[text shortened]... h Xanthippe?”
    “I ‘m training. If I could manage to stand her, I could stand everything.”
    😵
    And we all know that the Greek philosophers beat the German philosophers 1-0 on the winning goal by Archimedes/Socrates.
  9. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 13:53
    Originally posted by rwingett
    And we all know that the Greek philosophers beat the German philosophers 1-0 on the winning goal by Archimedes/Socrates.
    Once Crates, the Cynic philosopher, did not respond to a question by the philosopher Stilpo but farted loudly, expressing this way his contempt. Stilpo encountered Crates with the comment:
    "I ​​knew your answer would be completely irrelevant to my question"
    😵
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
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    07 Jan '13 15:411 edit
    "RHP Thread of The Year" by Scheveningen Lad, though the year's still young.
  11. Dublin Ireland
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    07 Jan '13 15:49
    Originally posted by black beetle
    When you have no hatred, then feel free to post without hatred.
    I took no offence by our last conversation, I just evaluated it. As regards the scientific predictions, we have a different view, but this is only natural amongst the people.

    We Greeks are many things, we are capable for everything, and most often we cause big troubles and damages to ou ...[text shortened]... s no Leader for the time being, and our case cannot be solved by an angry mob with shillelaghs😵
    There's a lot in what you say.

    Unfortunately there are very few LEADERS around if any at all
    in Europe today.

    I have to say I myself was shocked when the idea was put foeward
    that there should be a German representative stationed in Greece to
    ensure that they were following the bailout plan.

    Is it any wonder the Greek people had visions of 1943.
  12. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 18:25
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    There's a lot in what you say.

    Unfortunately there are very few LEADERS around if any at all
    in Europe today.

    I have to say I myself was shocked when the idea was put foeward
    that there should be a German representative stationed in Greece to
    ensure that they were following the bailout plan.

    Is it any wonder the Greek people had visions of 1943.
    My nation bankrupted for first time at the 5th century BC. The sacred Temple of Apollo at Delos was the Centre of the Treasures of the confederation of the Greek city-states under the leadership of Athens -it was the place at which the enormous amount of contributions was sent by the Allies and also the spot where their representatives met. The city-states contributed to the fund in the form of financial resources, troops and ships, while the members of the confederation had an equal vote in the council that was created back then. The financial contributions were determined by Athens: Aristides first set the levy for each city so correctly, that the Allies labeled him and called him “Rigtheous and the fairer amongst all men."
    In 454 BC, the famous Athenian League and 13 reconstituted cities-states went to borrowing from the Temple of Delos. Unfortunately, the 10 city-states could not repay their debts, leading to hold the first default in history. Of the 10 city-states, eventually two were finally unable to repay their debts, and so the remaining 8 asked what today is called “debt renegotiation".
    The defaults in Ancient Greece were not an unknown phenomenon. Indeed, the ancient traders recognized perfectly the “shared responsibility of debt”, ie the fact that the lender has to bear a share of the risk if something goes wrong as regards the impossibility for a full repay of the debt. During that time, any of the loans were distributed with the confident expectation that the borrower could be in occasions unable to meet his obligations.
    The bankrupt forced Pericles to transfer the fund of the Alliance to Acropolis of Athens. The fiscal decisions were then taken exclusively from Athens and the tax was stipulated by the Ecclesia of Demos, by Athenian citizens. The Hegemony of Athens has just started to rule exactly the way the city wanted.
    😵
  13. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 18:26
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    There's a lot in what you say.

    Unfortunately there are very few LEADERS around if any at all
    in Europe today.

    I have to say I myself was shocked when the idea was put foeward
    that there should be a German representative stationed in Greece to
    ensure that they were following the bailout plan.

    Is it any wonder the Greek people had visions of 1943.
    Even before the recognition of the new born Greek state, the first official Greek bankruptcy was a fact. The Greek government of Ioannis Kapodistrias was unable to pay the “loans of the Independence”. And few were the ones who observed that the loans never arrived! The struggle of 1821 for Greece was “for life or death”, but for the English banks it was a fight that led to an amazing opportunity; the English banks lent the Greek rebels with nominal loans totaling 2,800,000 pounds at the time, but ultimately only 20% of the amount arrived in the country. The result was the first to emerge earlier bankruptcy and the creation of the Greek state, because in 1827 the Greek government declared inability to pay the loans that were not even charged to it. The majority of the loan prepayment was wasted on interest and commissions, stock exchanges in Europe and differ orders’ ordnance. The war material, however, never reached Greece.
    In 1827 Kapodistrias called on major powers for a new loan. The governor estimated that this way he could pay off a portion of the interest on previous loans and that the rest could revive the ruined Greek economy. The answer was negative. Foreign lenders were not willing to grant new loans to the Greeks. In these circumstances, the failure to pay the loans of the Independence was inevitable. The Greek government was driven into bankruptcy.
    To cope with the the situation, Kapodistrias turned into an internal program to rebuild the economy, causing severe reactions as the Greeks in misery were pushing hard for the redistribution of “national lands”.
    Historians speculate that perhaps the bankruptcy was directly related to the Navarino Warfare at Sea that took place the same year, following a secret agreement between the Great Powers that decided to act this way in order to rescue the Greek revolution and to help the establishment of the Greek State, because this would be the sole way to collect the dept and at the same time to undermine the Ottoman Empire. In fact the recognition of the Greek independence was the product of military successes of the Greeks mainly from 1821 to 1824, and also of the philhellenic movement and of the competition of the Great Powers of the time.
    And the London Protocol of 1830 was a compromise in the interests of Great Britain. The newly established Greek protectorate was a prisoner of the international security system as well as of the Jew-British financial capital.
    😵
  14. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 18:27
    When London and Paris refused to lend Kapodistrias, the Greek governor spent money from his personal fortune and issued the first Greek unsecured notes. Paris and London, however, with the creation of the Greek state and the imposition of Otto as king in 1832, in consultation with the outlandish Bavarian administration continued oppressing and financially strangling the Greek citizens. The advent of the Bavarian Otto and of his financial advisors was accompanied by guarantees in order to provide Greece a loan of £60 million of the time by the Rothschild brothers in May 1833, which were not paid in 1827. Up to 1833 there were assigned up to the 2/3 of the loan. Of course the amount that arrived in Greece was much smaller, because 33 million were used to repay the so-called “loan of the Independence”. The bulk of the loan was spent on the military, the state bureaucracy and the payment of debt. According with the book “The public debt of Greece” by Angelos Angelopoulos (Zacharopoulos Publications, Athens 1937), there were “12,5 million for the purchase by the Turkish provinces of Attica, Euboea and part of Fthiotis county, and 7,5 million for its maintenance of the Bavarian armies”. And these “national lands” continued to be mortgaged. The disputes between the Greeks and their lenders were a daily occurrence. The economy was not progressing, resources for repayment was not so hard, Otto took unpopular measures that accelerated political developments. On Sep. 3, 1843, the military coup occurred by Kallergis, which led to the granting of a Constitution by the King Otto. After the Revolution of September 3, our country defaulted and ended up to a formal bankruptcy. The economic crisis, coupled with the bankruptcy and a number of other politicians, had put the basis for a severe intervention in the political affairs of the country by means of a military movement, which it received the support or was tolerated by all the political parties and the Greek people.
    😵
  15. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    07 Jan '13 18:28
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    There's a lot in what you say.

    Unfortunately there are very few LEADERS around if any at all
    in Europe today.

    I have to say I myself was shocked when the idea was put foeward
    that there should be a German representative stationed in Greece to
    ensure that they were following the bailout plan.

    Is it any wonder the Greek people had visions of 1943.
    We had to get to 1879 so that Greece could breathe financially from its creditors and to resume loaning from the foreign markets. And that, although in 1841 the British ambassador to Greece sir Edmund Lyons said:
    “A truly independent Greece is an absurd concept. Greece can be either Russian or English. And since it cannot be allowed to be Russian, it needs to be English.”
    In 1854 the Crimean War broke out between Russia and the British and French. The Bavarian government of Greece was swept away by the "Big Idea" of Kolettis’ party, and hurries to stand by the Tsar. The Anglo-French response is immediate and in May of the same year military corps disembarked at Piraeus. The Allies went to an unprecedented occupation of the country and by the end of the war they appoint at their will ministers and governments. And in 1857 the Allies along with the Russian representatives of the International Committee for a financial audit started working in order to find ways so that the Greeks could pay the Greek loan installments of 1832.
    From 1860 and onwards, the development of the Greek shipping industry and banks urges the people to embrace the political party of Charilaos Trikoupis. The years that followed in 1879 was a period of strong growth. So Trikoupis borrows large sums for infrastructure projects, such as the extensive construction of railways network Piraeus-Athens-Peloponnese and the opening of the Korinth Canal. In addition to the projects began the release of the Greek territories that belonged to the faltering Ottoman Empire. At the same time, the external consumer lending had increased dramatically. Furthermore, the situation deteriorated further after the Greek defeat in the Greco-Turkish War in 1897. The Turks came almost out of Lamia, where the Great Powers curtailed. The next day, without a formal bankruptcy, the Great Powers install International Financial Control in the country. On Sep. 6, 1897, the peace pact costs to Greece, amongst else, and 4 million pounds of the time as a compensation for war annexation of Thessaly and Arta and enforces monopolies at products like matches, cigarettes, alcohol ect.
    From 1879 to 1890 my country borrows thoughtlessly while forced to assign loans to 40% -50% of its revenues. The state budgets for those years are permanently in deficit and the balance is of course negative. The 1880's Greece suffers of sharp drop in exports, and simultaneously France sees a huge recovery of its exports. The Greek economy reaches its collapse as revenues from its export channeled to the repayment of foreign debt. In 1893 Trikoupis exclaims the House's historic “Gentlemen, unfortunately we bankrupted”. The bankruptcy led to the first industrial action and strikes (the most important was the one of the miners of Laurion in 1896). The country has tried unsuccessfully to come to an agreement with foreign bondholders loans.
    😵
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