1. Standard memberCalJust
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    18 Feb '14 12:51
    I don't normally resort to cut&paste postings, but this particular passage from Richard Rohr's book Soul Centering through Nature: Becoming a True Human Adult says it better than I could. The entire section below are his words, and mainly addressed at RJH, with his constant references to "Evilutionists".

    ******************************

    The First Idea in the Mind of God is to Materialize

    God has let us in on a mystery: the mystery of his purpose, the hidden plan he so kindly made from the very beginning in Christ (Ephesians 1:9-10).

    Whenever Paul says “in Christ,” he is not talking about Jesus of Nazareth. He’s talking about when matter and spirit come together, reveal and expose one another. Jesus is the concrete personification in time of what has always been true, which is the Christ Mystery, or the “anointing” of matter with eternal purpose.

    This hidden plan will become apparent when time has run its course, when we can finally see that “there is only Christ, he is everything and he is in everything” (Colossians 3:11). How were we able to miss such passages as this? (We only see what we are told to pay attention to.)

    What we call “salvation” is happening to the whole of creation and not just to humans (Revelation 21:1). Our inability to recognize and appreciate this is a central example of our dualistic thinking and even our narcissism. Why would God’s great plan just be about us?

    The irony, of course, is that we are—by far—the most destructive species on the planet, and refuse to take our proper place in the entire “family of things,” as Mary Oliver calls it.

    The very fact that Christians have fought the notion of evolution shows we did not minimally understand the Cosmic Christ. We should have been the first to recognize and honor evolution: the glory, patience, and humility of God is that God creates things that continue to create themselves—from the inner dynamism God has planted within them.

    Many of us would call this inner creative dynamism the Holy Spirit which “hovers over the initial chaos” (Genesis 1:2) and then stands at the end of history with a constant and beckoning “Come!” (Revelation 22:17).

    These two verses are the very bookends of the Bible.
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    18 Feb '14 15:13
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I don't normally resort to cut&paste postings, but this particular passage from Richard Rohr's book Soul Centering through Nature: Becoming a True Human Adult says it better than I could. The entire section below are his words, and mainly addressed at RJH, with his constant references to "Evilutionists".

    ******************************

    [b]The Fir ...[text shortened]... d beckoning “Come!” (Revelation 22:17).

    These two verses are the very bookends of the Bible.
    This is absolute nonsense, Christian do not oppose the theory of evolution not because they do not recognise the Cosmic Christ (whatever that may be) but because it is mutually exclusive with the act of creation as espoused in the Bible.

    The Bible teaches that God created animals according to their specific kinds, evolution teaches that they evolved from a common ancestor through any number of hypothesised mechanisms, transmutation, genetic aberration, response to the environment, for example, fish became amphibians, amphibians became reptiles, reptiles became birds, birds became mammals, why would a Christian honour a teaching that is diametrically opposed to the Biblical account? what is more there is not a shred of scriptural evidence that God utilised such a system.
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    18 Feb '14 15:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    This is absolute nonsense, Christian do not oppose the theory of evolution not because they do not recognise the Cosmic Christ (whatever that may be) but because it is mutually exclusive with the act of creation as espoused in the Bible.

    The Bible teaches that God created animals according to their specific kinds, evolution teaches that they evo ...[text shortened]... ount? what is more there is not a shred of scriptural evidence that God utilised such a system.
    SOME IGNORANT christians.


    i am a christian and i have no problem understanding evolution.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    18 Feb '14 15:27
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I don't normally resort to cut&paste postings, but this particular passage from Richard Rohr's book Soul Centering through Nature: Becoming a True Human Adult says it better than I could. The entire section below are his words, and mainly addressed at RJH, with his constant references to "Evilutionists".

    ******************************

    [b]The Fir ...[text shortened]... d beckoning “Come!” (Revelation 22:17).

    These two verses are the very bookends of the Bible.
    Does Richard Rohr's "Soul Centering through Nature" establish a distinction between "Microevolution" (small observable changes occurring within the species) and "Macroevolution" (biological changes resulting in the alleged production of new species through natural processes alone, which haven't ever been observed directly in experiments or in the fossil record)?
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    18 Feb '14 18:131 edit
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I don't normally resort to cut&paste postings, but this particular passage from Richard Rohr's book Soul Centering through Nature: Becoming a True Human Adult says it better than I could. The entire section below are his words, and mainly addressed at RJH, with his constant references to "Evilutionists".

    ******************************

    [b]The Fir ...[text shortened]... d beckoning “Come!” (Revelation 22:17).

    These two verses are the very bookends of the Bible.
    It never ends. Always the deviation from the Biblical narrative.

    How else can one promote their own perspective, except to reinvent the Word of God to fit the framework of an errant mind, than to add to or take away from...?

    A good thread topic?
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    18 Feb '14 18:191 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    This is absolute nonsense, Christian do not oppose the theory of evolution not because they do not recognise the Cosmic Christ (whatever that may be) but because it is mutually exclusive with the act of creation as espoused in the Bible.

    The Bible teaches that God created animals according to their specific kinds, evolution teaches that they evo ...[text shortened]... ount? what is more there is not a shred of scriptural evidence that God utilised such a system.
    holy moly! I have to agree with this! In all these years robbie, you finally said something I can agree with! 😲

    It's a miracle! There's hope after all! Light at the end of the tunnel!! 😀

    Now we just have to work on your grammar. 😉
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    18 Feb '14 18:20
    Originally posted by josephw
    It never ends. Always the deviation from the Biblical narrative.

    How else can one promote their own perspective, except to reinvent the Word of God to fit the framework of an errant mind, than to add to or take away from...?
    one of your mistakes is that you assume scientists are out to change the bible.


    they seek truth, through logic, through experimentation, through real evidence.


    evolution is proven without a shred of doubt. what may change in the future is the details by which it occurred and occurs. religion must change to account for science, not the other way around, and it HAD change. catholics have no issue with evolution. it is only american protestants who celebrate mediocrity and ignorance and religion through fear that refuse to change.
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    18 Feb '14 18:28
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    one of your mistakes is that you assume scientists are out to change the bible.


    they seek truth, through logic, through experimentation, through real evidence.


    evolution is proven without a shred of doubt. what may change in the future is the details by which it occurred and occurs. religion must change to account for science, not the other way ...[text shortened]... estants who celebrate mediocrity and ignorance and religion through fear that refuse to change.
    Your mistake is assuming I think scientist are out to change the Bible!

    That's the deli's job! 😕

    But I do disagree with your statement that "evolution is proven without a shred of doubt".

    I can't get into that debate. It's crazy to think science has proven HOW the universe came into existence, much less how life came to be. If anything science is in it's infancy by comparison to all there is to know about anything!
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    18 Feb '14 20:49
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    This is absolute nonsense, Christian do not oppose the theory of evolution not because they do not recognise the Cosmic Christ (whatever that may be) but because it is mutually exclusive with the act of creation as espoused in the Bible.

    The Bible teaches that God created animals according to their specific kinds, evolution teaches that they evo ...[text shortened]... ount? what is more there is not a shred of scriptural evidence that God utilised such a system.
    How many times must you be told?

    There are far more things in heaven and earth than were ever talked about in the Bible. Just because and only because something's not in the Bible is no reason to blow it off as non-existent. I hear Christians do this ALL the time. "Oh yeah, where is that in the Bible?" The answer is, it's NOT. The Bible is not simply a repository for all things true. Even if it were, to expect that ALL things are in the Bible is a non-sequitur.

    Let me ask you this, robbie. How would you explain the Space Shuttle to the Hebrews of 4000 years ago? How about vaccines? How about a solar corona? How about a black hole? How about the speed of light? How about a common FM radio? How about a computer and the internet?

    Where are all these in the Bible? Are you getting my point yet?

    Calling something "extra-biblical" doesn't mean it's not true.

    I know these are advanced concepts for someone who can't even understand some simple verses in the Bible, so I don't expect you to get this, either.
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    18 Feb '14 22:13
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I don't normally resort to cut&paste postings, but this particular passage from Richard Rohr's book Soul Centering through Nature: Becoming a True Human Adult says it better than I could. The entire section below are his words, and mainly addressed at RJH, with his constant references to "Evilutionists".

    ******************************

    [b]The Fir ...[text shortened]... d beckoning “Come!” (Revelation 22:17).

    These two verses are the very bookends of the Bible.
    Whenever Paul says “in Christ,” he is not talking about Jesus of Nazareth. He’s talking about when matter and spirit come together, reveal and expose one another. Jesus is the concrete personification in time of what has always been true, which is the Christ Mystery, or the “anointing” of matter with eternal purpose.


    When Paul wrote be of being in Christ, firstly he was repeating only what Jesus Christ had said before Paul was converted.

    Jesus of Nazareth spoke of His state in resurrection as being enterable, His disciples would be "In Him" and He "in them".

    "In that day [the day of His resurrection] you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20)

    Jesus of Nazareth was saying that in His state of resurrection, the disciples will realize that He is in the Father, and THEY ARE IN HIM, and He is in them.

    This is truly a mingling of the Triune God with His redeemed believers - Christ is in the Father, they are in Christ, and Christ in them. It is truly recursive.

    He also said "Abide in Me and I in you" in the teaching of John 15 that He is the true vine and His believers are the branches. So Jesus spoke that we can believe INTO Him.

    Latter the Apostle Paul with others pioneered ahead in the experience of knowing Christ in resurrection. So Paul spoke much about the saints being "in Christ".

    This Christ that the believers are in is Jesus of Nazareth made enterable, joinable, available, contactable through the process He has passed through. So Christ - "the last Adam" Paul says, "became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) [/b]

    We may speak of the cosmic Christ. But that is Jesus of Nazareth become a life giving Spirit that can enter into His lovers. And entering into Him they can live in Him as a realm and a sphere.

    The proper new testament community, the church, is a group of people living in this realm of God and Christ -

    "Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the church of the Thessalonians IN God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thess. 1:1)

    This means in the city of Thessalonika there was a community of people living and moving in the realm and sphere of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ - the Jesus of Nazareth.

    "Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace." (1 Thess. 1:1)

    Of course the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of Jesus of Nazareth -

    Acts 16:7 - "And when they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, yet the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them."

    The Cosmic Christ is the Spirit of Jesus.
    The Spirit of Jesus is also the Spirit of Jesus Christ with all its bountiful and rich supply -

    "For I know that for me this will turn out to salvation through your petition and the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:19)

    The saints that Paul was writing TO also had the Spirit of Jesus Christ and therefore were "in Christ Jesus" too -

    "Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the overseers and deacons." (Phil. 1:1)

    This post ends here until latter.

    But WAIT ! The same audience, every one of them as recipients of Paul's letter he reminds, that the grace of Christ is with their innermost being - their spirit -

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit." (Phil. 4:23)

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ is something like power steering. With cooperation with His moving they are divinely empowered to live as Christ lives.

    Paul wanted always to be found in this realm - in Christ. That means practically when people contacted him he wanted them to find him living in this sphere -

    "And be found in Him [Christ], not having my own righteousness which is of the law but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith." (Phil. 3:9)

    What an incredible pioneer Paul was.
    What a trail blazer.
    What a disciple to boldly go where no man had gone before - deep into the experience of the cosmic Christ, the Jesus of Nazareth become a life giving Spirit of grace.

    Well, he was not the first. But he did write 13 or so books of the 27 New Testament books. What a pioneer to help us all get into Christ too.
  11. Donationrwingett
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    19 Feb '14 03:202 edits
    Originally posted by CalJust
    I don't normally resort to cut&paste postings, but this particular passage from Richard Rohr's book Soul Centering through Nature: Becoming a True Human Adult says it better than I could. The entire section below are his words, and mainly addressed at RJH, with his constant references to "Evilutionists".

    ******************************

    [b]The Fir ...[text shortened]... d beckoning “Come!” (Revelation 22:17).

    These two verses are the very bookends of the Bible.
    Dualism, the concept that mankind is separate from the rest of creation, is what led to his estrangement from god, and consequently to his expulsion from Eden. Salvation shall consist of mankind re-discovering the myriad web of interconnections which link him with creation at large, and the realization that there is no separation between him and the rest of creation. What we do to the least part of it, we do to Him (and to ourselves).

    Adam represents primordial man living sustainably, in harmony with nature. The Tree of Knowledge is technological thinking, which caused mankind to view himself as being separate from nature, which was reconceptualized as a resource to be used up and exploited. Once technological thinking had gotten hold of mankind, he was obliged to leave his carefree foraging ways in the Garden and go to the East of Eden where he would have to earn his living by the sweat of his brow through agriculture. Private property soon followed, and all the sins of mankind were fast upon its heels. The manifold usurpations mankind visited upon the natural world, and the despoliations caused thereby, have brought mankind to the final crossroads. Mankind can either continue with business as usual toward his final end, or he can gain salvation by learning to live sustainably on the Earth once again, merge back into the wholeness of nature, and find rapprochement with god.

    Amen.
  12. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    19 Feb '14 03:29
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Dualism, the concept that mankind is separate from the rest of creation, is what led to his estrangement from god, and consequently to his expulsion from Eden. Salvation shall consist of mankind re-discovering the myriad web of interconnections which link him with creation at large, and the realization that there is no separation between him and the rest of ...[text shortened]... once again, merge back into the wholeness of nature, and find rapprochement with god.

    Amen.
    You seem to believe this solution concept "Mankind can either continue with business as usual toward his final end, or he can gain salvation by learning to live sustainably on the Earth once again, merge back into the wholeness of nature, and find rapprochement with god." with conviction. Were you taught the principles when young or discover them later on your own?
  13. Donationrwingett
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    19 Feb '14 03:34
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    You seem to believe this solution concept "Mankind can either continue with business as usual toward his final end, or he can gain salvation by learning to live sustainably on the Earth once again, merge back into the wholeness of nature, and find rapprochement with god." with conviction. Were you taught the principles when young or discover them later on your own?
    It is a formulation (not wholly original) that I have developed at least to some degree on my own.
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    19 Feb '14 03:55
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It is a formulation (not wholly original) that I have developed at least to some degree on my own.
    Well, I certainly respect a person with a defined grasp on reality, especially if it provides contentment and tranquility of soul.
  15. Standard memberCalJust
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    19 Feb '14 07:01
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Dualism, the concept that mankind is separate from the rest of creation, is what led to his estrangement from god, and consequently to his expulsion from Eden. Salvation shall consist of mankind re-discovering the myriad web of interconnections which link him with creation at large, and the realization that there is no separation between him and the rest of ...[text shortened]... once again, merge back into the wholeness of nature, and find rapprochement with god.

    Amen.
    1 thumbs up from me.
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