Originally posted by whodey We all witness "bad behavior", and this behavior stems from free will.
So the question becomes, how do we deal with bad behavior?
Politically speaking, you have several choices. You can either punish them and/or coerce them into good behavior.
So tell me, in the context of your "individualism", which in turn is in the context of your "spirituality", how do you suggest society should "deal with bad behavior"? You are a member of society and you have asserted your right to exercise free will. So, you say "...you have several choices ~ you can either punish [people engaged in bad behavior stemming from free will] and/or coerce them into good behavior", what is your spirituality-driven 'political choice'?
Originally posted by FMF Is a Christian or Islamic or Jewish orphanage really the "polar opposite" of a government run or a secular orphanage? Are you suggesting that Jesus would oppose historical "collectivist" efforts made by governments to do things like eradicate diseases, provide education for people who can't afford it, clean up rivers, regulate industries whose activities are potentially dangerous to the community and so on and so forth?
There is an interesting exchange of ideas in 1 Samuel 9. Here the children of Israel look around at the other nations wishing to have a human king. So the prophet Samuel goes before the Lord and presents the peoples request. God responds by saying that they have rejected him as king, and then tells Samuel to warn the people of the horrible cost of their wish. However, the people are undeterred, so God tells Samuel to give them what they will, and Saul became their first king.
Chillingly, God tells Samuel that when they cry to him after suffering from their king, he will not hear them.
Originally posted by FMF And you give them some money every week? Do you help to organize their activities? Do these outreach activities not benefit from publically owned and maintained infrastructure and other government assistance or cooperation in the countries in which they occur? How is this "collective" action different from that conducted by a non-Christian NGO or aid agency?
Specifically the politics is yanked from the "help".
For example, they sent aid and help to those in the Sudan, whom the UN let languish in genocide.
To get "help", it helps to have a political angle to actually help them.
All "help" has a political angle in my opinion. The US does not give billions to county's that hate her because they are good hearted. They simply want some clout. If you don't do what we like, you may not get your money.
Originally posted by FMF Feel free to link this explicitly in some way or other to the topic in hand.
Collectivists like Marx would argue that freedom comes from economic affluence. Conversely, the message Jesus preached taught that a slave could be free simply by setting his heart free.
Originally posted by FMF So tell me, in the context of your "individualism", which in turn is in the context of your "spirituality", how do you suggest society should "deal with bad behavior"? You are a member of society and you have asserted your right to exercise free will. So, you say "...you have several choices ~ you can either punish [people engaged in bad behavior stemming from f ...[text shortened]... ll] and/or coerce them into good behavior", what is your spirituality-driven 'political choice'?
The question is how to harness evil?
In the OT they would stone an adulterer. Instead, Jesus showed mercy on a adulterer and cast out "demons" to set her free.
Both stop the adultery, only, one method is far superior, don't you think?
Originally posted by whodey The question is how to harness evil?
No not at all. The question is how to harness one's "individualism" to real actions and actual contributions that are for the common/collective good ~ as seen through your personal spiritual prism.
Originally posted by whodey Specifically the politics is yanked from the "help".
For example, they sent aid and help to those in the Sudan, whom the UN let languish in genocide.
To get "help", it helps to have a political angle to actually help them.
All "help" has a political angle in my opinion. The US does not give billions to county's that hate her because they are good hearted. They simply want some clout. If you don't do what we like, you may not get your money.
Your partisan stance on US-retail politics and the UN and such like perhaps belongs on the Debate Forum. I am not asking you what you have done for Sudan. Any measures taken by society to address problems, threats and common goals are going to be "political" [small-p-political] acts because opinions and aspirations will differ and compromises will have to be made. I am not asking asking you about your role in genocide in Sudan and I am not interested in rhetoric condemning "political angles" based on the fact that there are "political angles" to terrible things that happen.
Instead, I am asking you about how your personal conception of the spiritual dimension in your life affects your philosophy of individualism and the role you see yourself having in the society where you live, your options when it comes to interaction in the way it is organized, and your "obligations" regarding concerted efforts seeking to benefit the common good.
Originally posted by whodey Collectivists like Marx would argue that freedom comes from economic affluence. Conversely, the message Jesus preached taught that a slave could be free simply by setting his heart free.
Surely the contribution your "individualism" can make to the society in which you live is enhanced and facilitated by your own economic security and autonomy?
Individualism & the human spirit
27 Aug '14 06:10
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