1. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    05 Mar '12 23:30
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Should we assume there's an insightful question hidden somewhere within your reply? If not, is it possible you're reeling from the hard fist of reality?
    Reality is a crutch.
  2. Joined
    10 Jun '11
    Moves
    3829
    06 Mar '12 00:27
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    No backup explanation as usual.
    there was no backup explanation on the original post, so no backup explanation is required in the rejection.
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    06 Mar '12 16:26
    Originally posted by JS357
    Reality is a crutch.
    Reality is ultimate truth for the able bodied. Crutches are reserved for the weak and infirm among us.
  4. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    06 Mar '12 16:56
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Reality is ultimate truth for the able bodied. Crutches are reserved for the weak and infirm among us.
    Reality is the story we tell ourselves to put our minds at ease. It doesn't always work.
  5. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    06 Mar '12 16:591 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Pure human viewpoint, attendant with all of its limitations. Ever occur to you that the creator (of anything) is vastly superior to the creature or thing?
    I hate to have to point out the obvious, but everyone here is human and ALL the viewpoints expressed here are human viewpoints [attendant with all their limitations].

    I don't agree that the creator is always vastly superior to the created. We procreate and we're not 'vastly superior' to our children - they may grow up to be smarter and/or stronger than we are. Even when they are infants and we ARE smarter and stronger than they are, they are not our property and we still do not have the right to inflict suffering on them or end their life at whim.

    I've always wondered why Christians claim that God must be ALL powerful and ALL knowing. What if he is just somewhat powerful and somewhat knowledgeable? The gap of superiority between him and us shrinks. The possibility of God being created by some other being enters the picture. Maybe there is an even more powerful being who created God's creator, and so on and so forth. Why not? Again, with our LIMITED human viewpoint, we cannot rule out this possibility. We cannot tell if God, even if he exists, is the First Cause.

    Maybe there is no first cause, but just an infinite regression of creators who get more and more powerful the further back you go on the cause chain.
  6. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    06 Mar '12 17:28
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I hate to have to point out the obvious, but everyone here is human and ALL the viewpoints expressed here are human viewpoints [attendant with all their limitations].

    I don't agree that the creator is always vastly superior to the created. We procreate and we're not 'vastly superior' to our children - they may grow up to be smarter and/or stronger tha ...[text shortened]... ion of creators who get more and more powerful the further back you go on the cause chain.
    Maybe there is no first cause, but just an infinite regression of creators who get more and more powerful the further back you go on the cause chain.


    excerpted from Göedel, Escher, Bach - by Douglas Hofstadter
    http://amberbaldet.com/uploads/little-harmonic-labrynth.html

    or http://jiggatries.livejournal.com/83329.html:
    [corrects a typo]

    Achilles: Oh, thank you so very much, Genie. But my curiosity is provoked. Before I make my wish, would you mind telling me who - or what - GOD is?

    Genie: Not at all. "GOD" is an acronym which stands for "GOD Over Djinn." The word "Djinn" is used to designate Genies, Meta-Genies, Meta-Meta-Genies, etc. It is a Typeless word.

    Achilles: But-but-how can "GOD" be a word in its own acronym? That doesn't make any sense!

    Genie: Oh, aren't you acquainted with recursive acronyms? I thought everybody knew about them. You see, "GOD" stands for "GOD Over Djinn" - which can be expanded as "GOD Over Djinn, Over Djinn" - and that can, in turn, be expanded to "GOD Over Djinn, Over Djinn, Over Djinn" - which can, in turn, be further expanded...You can go as far as you like.

    Achillles: But I'll never finish!

    Genie: Of course not. You can never totally expand GOD.

    Achilles: Hmm...That's puzzling. What did you mean when you said to the Meta-Genie, "I have a special wish to make of you, O Djinn, and of GOD"?

    Genie: I wanted not only to make a request of the Meta-Genie, but also of all the Djinns over her. The recursive acronym method accomplishes this quite naturally. You see, when the Meta-Genie received my request, she then had to pass it upwards to her GOD. So she forwarded a similar message to the Meta-Meta-Genie, who then did likewise to the Meta-Meta-Meta-Genie...Ascending the chain this way transmits the message to GOD.

    Achilles: I see. You mean GOD sits up at the top of the ladder of djinns?

    Genie: No, no, no! There is nothing "at the top", for there is no top. That is why GOD is a recursive acronym. GOD is not some ultimate djinn; GOD is the tower of djinns above any given djinn.

    Tortoise: It seems to me that each and every djinn would have a different concept of what GOD is, then, since to any djinn, GOD is the set of djinns above him or her, and no two djinns share that set.

    Genie: You're absolutely right - and since I am the lowest djinn of all, my notion of GOD is the most exalted one. I pity the higher djinns, who fancy themselves somehow closer to GOD. What blasphemy!
Back to Top