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@suzianne saidOh yes, I agree completely, that a church (or organised religion in general, whether Christian or some other), should not concern itself solely with avoiding spiritual pitfalls. But if it reduces to "charitable works and outreach", well, that can be handled by secular institutions just as well.
I believe a church is much more than this. I believe a church's attention should be on Jesus, and charitable works, and outreach. Too many consider "spiritual pitfalls" just an opportunity to judge people. I get tired of the church "message" becoming almost corporate in nature, and promoting a "brand". The sermons I appreciate the most aren't the preachy "do as I say, no ...[text shortened]... meant to others in that time and now, and how we all can apply it to our lives in the here and now.
What else organised religion in general, whether Christian or some other, offers is a sense of community or belonging, immersing people in a collective spiritual direction.
Another thing which religion can do, when it is doing what it ought to, is to show people a path which leads beyond sheer egotism. In Christianity, it takes the form of sacrifice and service to others (so, charitable works does have a place in the scheme); it's ultimately related to immersing people in a collective direction, just expressed in a different way.
Unfortunately, the transcendence of ego has, historically speaking, too often been interpreted to mean that one must torture oneself, endure bodily privations, in order to become egoless (mistakenly identified with being spiritual). This is a perversion, literally and metaphorically. "The body is the temple of the Lord," said Jesus. And how should one treat the temple? With respect or with contempt? With garlands or with flagellation?
"Promoting a brand" -- ah yes, I know just what, and who, you mean. Sonship. One of the pitfalls is a peculiar kind of erudite stupidity which quotes miles and miles of Scripture for any and every occasion and puts the most bizarre spin on it.
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@moonbus saidYes. Just yes.
Oh yes, I agree completely, that a church (or organised religion in general, whether Christian or some other), should not concern itself solely with avoiding spiritual pitfalls. But if it reduces to "charitable works and outreach", well, that can be handled by secular institutions just as well.
What else organised religion in general, whether Christian or some other, offer ...[text shortened]... quotes miles and miles of Scripture for any and every occasion and puts the most bizarre spin on it.
I agree with all you said. I almost included the sense of community, but I was at work and needed to punch out. This is vital. This and "show people a path which leads beyond sheer egotism" speaks to a building of what Jung called the "collective unconscious" (and yes, I know his vision of this is much larger). When a congregation can truly speak in one voice and turn out en masse on a weekend for a good cause, this is the best evocation of this.
I have much more to say in this vein, including an intimate way this has affected me, but considering this venue and I don't want to bore anybody or cause the automatic targeting systems to come online, I'll save it for another time, if at all.
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"Promoting a brand" -- ah yes, I know just what, and who, you mean. Sonship. One of the pitfalls is a peculiar kind of erudite stupidity which quotes miles and miles of Scripture for any and every occasion and puts the most bizarre spin on it.
If you can get over the "erudite stupidity" of one referring to what God has revealed to man in the Bible, please, in your next post:
Could you put together three or four consecutive sentences together telling us why you exist?
Maybe this model template could get you started.
The universe is here, and moonbus in it with a beating heart and a living soul for the purpose of __________________________________ ?
@sonship saidWhy I exist? Because the condom ripped; I am a fluke. (Though perhaps you will say that God made the condom rip in order to let a sperm slip through -- which, if true, means that there is no reason to prohibit contraception, since God can make whomever He pleases pregnant despite contraception and even without sperm if He wants to. )
@moonbus"Promoting a brand" -- ah yes, I know just what, and who, you mean. Sonship. One of the pitfalls is a peculiar kind of erudite stupidity which quotes miles and miles of Scripture for any and every occasion and puts the most bizarre spin on it.
If you can get over the "erudite stupidity" of one referring to what God has revealed to man in the ...[text shortened]... with a beating heart and a living soul for the purpose of __________________________________ ? [/b]
Whether I have a purpose or a soul is no concern of yours.
How's by you, sonship. Been deified yet?
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@moonbus
Thankyou.
Your reply, being typical of the current age, did not suprise me,
nor the apparent annoyance you expressed in being asked.
As for me being deified?
Every person having been born of God in regeneration is in that process, including
myself.
You can read about it in the book of Ephesians.
Free good news for any who have an ear to hear.
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@sonship saidWell, no one can accuse me of dodging the question.
@moonbus
Thankyou.
Your reply, being typical of the current age, did not suprise me,
nor the apparent annoyance you expressed in being asked.
As for me being deified?
Every person having been born of God in regeneration is in that process, including
myself.
You can read about it in the book of Ephesians.
Free good news for any who have an ear to hear.
Your reply did not surprise me either.
I have read the Bible. It did not convince or convert me. Reading it again won’t have any different effect on me.
Go in peace, sonship, I bear you no ill will. I just could not get myself to believe even 1% of the things you believe.
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@moonbus saidAnd people (many here) claim that we do not have free will.
Well, no one can accuse me of dodging the question.
Your reply did not surprise me either.
I have read the Bible. It did not convince or convert me. Reading it again won’t have any different effect on me.
Go in peace, sonship, I bear you no ill will. I just could not get myself to believe even 1% of the things you believe.
Go figure.
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@suzianne saidI haven't seen anyone make that claim here.
And people (many here) claim that we do not have free will.
I believe we have free will.
However, I believe that the action of the "God" character in the incident depicted in the mythological Garden of Eden folktale may perhaps be the most monstrously evil act in all of literature.
The talking point about "free will" appears to me, morally speaking, to be a rhetorical fig leaf.