Interview with airline pilot

Originally posted by whodey
I guess we need to give the masses what they crave and he seems to fit the bill. I just wonder if he is so preoccupied with sex or if he is just selling soap.

I think he would be the first to say he is preoccupied with sex. Actually gives riveting social commentary about many topics.

Originally posted by kirksey957
What are we to make of the Katie Couric interview with Captain Sullenberger of the plane that crashed in the Hudson River?

Couric: "Did you pray?"

Sullenberger: "No, I had a plane to land."

A good answer to that question. All I can say is that if I am a passenger in a plane going down, I would hope that my pilot is actually doing his job (as opposed to, say, wasting time entertaining superstitions).

Originally posted by stoker
its not for us to say who gets into heaven. saving your own life with others i doubt that qualifies, but i wait and see

You are correct about us not presuming who, individually, gets into Heaven, but the Bible clearly states who and who will not enter into Heaven.

Originally posted by dystoniac
You are correct about us not presuming who, individually, gets into Heaven, but the Bible clearly states who and who will not enter into Heaven.

so neither of you presume, yet you do have a piece of material that clearly presumes what you are not presuming

awesome.

Originally posted by kirksey957
I think he would be the first to say he is preoccupied with sex. Actually gives riveting social commentary about many topics.

yes he is a very astute and informed person!

Originally posted by divegeester
Then you are a slave... to what?

The one that recognizes he is not free stops being a slave.

Originally posted by LemonJello
A good answer to that question. All I can say is that if I am a passenger in a plane going down, I would hope that my pilot is actually doing his job (as opposed to, say, wasting time entertaining superstitions).

The quotation left out something else the pilot said.

He said someone else may have been doing that praying in the back. Didn't he ?

Regardless, whether he prayed or someone prayed for the whole affair, or if no one prayed, some of us are still thankful to God that they were spared.

You have no way of knowing whether the prayers previously made even before the flight were answered. You are too arrogant. I pray often before driving or flying in a plane.

Another bit of ignorance which needs to be exposed - Praying can be so spontaneous that it is like breathing. A mature Christian can be praying almost unconsciously while doing some task which requires concentration. Praying does not always have to involve being on one's knees.

At any rate some of us are thankful to God that all lives on the plane were spared.

When Apollo 13 went bad there was plenty of prayer. One of the officials said that that experience was more spiritual than some of the other flights.

You think praying to God is a superstitious waste of time? Then that is your loss.

Originally posted by jaywill
The quotation left out something else the pilot said.

He said someone else may have been doing that praying in the back. Didn't he ?

Regardless, whether he prayed or someone prayed for the whole affair, or if no one prayed, some of us are still thankful to God that they were spared.

You have no way of knowing whether the prayers previously made e ...[text shortened]... lights.

You think praying to God is a superstitious waste of time? Then that is your loss.

You think praying to God is a superstitious waste of time?

Not to rule out the therapeutic aspects of opening up to what one takes as another, but yes. And I think if the pilot had been doing that instead of, you know, doing his job; then that would have been a gross negligence of sorts on his part.

I once qualified as watch officer on a nuclear submarine. I can tell you that any team of monkeys can be trained to operate the plant under steady state conditions, but it takes a well-trained, knowledgeable team of watch standers to take the appropriate actions that place the sailors and submarine back in safe condition following a reactor or propulsion plant casualty. I'm happy to report that in all the dozens and dozens and dozens of casualty procedures I had to learn, assimilate, and understand; not one of them instructs the watch team to spend valuable response time praying to the invisible sky fairy above. Go figure!

You can delude yourself all you want, jaywill, and I am sure you will. But what brought that plane down safely was good watch team response to a casualty of the system -- not some invisible sky man.

A mature Christian can be praying almost unconsciously while doing some task which requires concentration. Praying does not always have to involve being on one's knees.

I don't care if the pilot is able to pray (or does pray) unconsciously or otherwise while he also responds to the casualty -- just make sure he responds appropriately to the casualty! That's what will get the crew and passengers through, not some prayer to a sky fairy. I'd like to see what would have happened if the watch team had just "let go and let god", if they had just closed their eyes to their problems when the casualty hit and just let the invisible sky fairy fly and direct the plane. I'm sure that the situation would have ended just great for everyone involved. 🙄

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]You think praying to God is a superstitious waste of time?

Not to rule out the therapeutic aspects of opening up to what one takes as another, but yes. And I think if the pilot had been doing that instead of, you know, doing his job; then that would have been a gross negligence of sorts on his part.

I once qualified as watch officer ane. I'm sure that the situation would have ended just great for everyone involved. 🙄[/b]

=================================
Not to rule out the therapeutic aspects of opening up to what one takes as another, but yes. And I think if the pilot had been doing that instead of, you know, doing his job; then that would have been a gross negligence of sorts on his part.
==========================================

It depends upon who the pilot feels his ultimate responsibility is to.

While its interesting to get your opinion on the matter, the last judgement of all mankind is not up to you. You'll be a participant before the Judge and not the Judge Himself.

=======================================
I once qualified as watch officer on a nuclear submarine. I can tell you that any team of monkeys can be trained to operate the plant under steady state conditions, but it takes a well-trained, knowledgeable team of watch standers to take the appropriate actions that place the sailors and submarine back in safe condition following a reactor or propulsion plant casualty. I'm happy to report that in all the dozens and dozens and dozens of casualty procedures I had to learn, assimilate, and understand; not one of them instructs the watch team to spend valuable response time praying to the invisible sky fairy above. Go figure!
======================================

Everyman has his own sense of where his ultimate responsibility lies.

I am much more impressed by the life and deeds of Jesus. And at crucial times in His life the NT does say that Jesus "lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, Father ..." (See John 17:1)

You're submarine training is interesting. By and large though, I am much more impressed with what Jesus accomplished. And He was a man of prayer.

After two thousand years of the Christian faith spreading continually through the globe one more silly scoffer talking about the big invisible fairy in the sky won't hurt at all.

Do it again.

====================================
You can delude yourself all you want, jaywill, and I am sure you will. But what brought that plane down safely was good watch team response to a casualty of the system -- not some invisible sky man.
=========================================

You don't know much about it. Your boasts are hollow.

I have no question about the fact that you are the one who is deluded.


====================================
A mature Christian can be praying almost unconsciously while doing some task which requires concentration. Praying does not always have to involve being on one's knees.

I don't care if the pilot is able to pray (or does pray)
============================

Your caring or not caring has no effect on it.

==================================
unconsciously or otherwise while he also responds to the casualty -- just make sure he responds appropriately to the casualty! That's what will get the crew and passengers through, not some prayer to a sky fairy.
=====================================

Repeating it again doesn't give me any assurance that you are less deluded.

================================
I'd like to see what would have happened if the watch team had just "let go and let god", if they had just closed their eyes to their problems when the casualty hit and just let the invisible sky fairy fly and direct the plane. I'm sure that the situation would have ended just great for everyone involved.
=====================================

Nice proof that you are a haughty and unthankful individual. Was there something else that you hoped to demonstrate to us?

I'm not sure I would feel comfortable riding on any submarine under the watch of someone as ignorant and arrogant as you. You do need much prayer.

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]You think praying to God is a superstitious waste of time?

Not to rule out the therapeutic aspects of opening up to what one takes as another, but yes. And I think if the pilot had been doing that instead of, you know, doing his job; then that would have been a gross negligence of sorts on his part.

I once qualified as watch officer ane. I'm sure that the situation would have ended just great for everyone involved. 🙄[/b]

===================================
I once qualified as watch officer on a nuclear submarine. I can tell you that any team of monkeys can be trained to operate the plant under steady state conditions, but it takes a well-trained, knowledgeable team of watch standers to take the appropriate actions that place the sailors and submarine back in safe condition following a reactor or propulsion plant casualty. I'm happy to report that in all the dozens and dozens and dozens of casualty procedures I had to learn, assimilate, and understand;
==========================================

But you're an athiest probably. So man is simply some kind of accident and not much better than a roach. So why is this a noble thing then ? What difference does it make?

We'll do whatever for our vain brief empty existences under your atheistic belief and melt away into dust with no accountablity. Any sense that your submarine training was "good" or to be held in some kind of high esteem has no more weight in your world view than anyone's personal taste for vanilla icecream over chocolate.

What's good about your training ? Any goodness you associate with it is purely arbitrary and a matter of your personal taste.

So it is in a world with no Ultimate Governor and no ultimate decider of what is good or evil. In your atheist worldview such standards are at best just some subjective matter of taste.

Submarine Watch Officer or a bored kid skipping stones across a muddy river - So what in your Atheist worldview ? There's no nobility, no baseness, no meaning really. Your only destiny is dust and worms.

Originally posted by jaywill
===================================
I once qualified as watch officer on a nuclear submarine. I can tell you that any team of monkeys can be trained to operate the plant under steady state conditions, but it takes a well-trained, knowledgeable team of watch standers to take the appropriate actions that place the sailors and submarine back in safe co ere's no nobility, no baseness, no meaning really. Your only destiny is dust and worms.

But you're an athiest probably. So man is simply some kind of accident and not much better than a roach.

Yikes, are you sure you know what 'atheism' means? I ask because the notion that "man is simply some kind of accident and not much better than a roach" is not entailed by atheism.

We'll do whatever for our vain brief empty existences under your atheistic belief and melt away into dust with no accountablity.

Not that it is inherent to or entailed by my atheism, but I do think that we will live for a while and then cease to exist. However, I do not think our existences are "empty". At any rate, for all I care, you can keep on hoping and praying and pretending like you will not really die when you die.

Any goodness you associate with it is purely arbitrary and a matter of your personal taste.

You must be very confused and ignorant about secular ethics. As a matter of fact, the atheist can be a realist when it comes to morals and values (not that they all are, but the point is that they can be). For instance, he can hold that there are objective morals and values and that such things are neither arbitrary nor a matter of personal taste.

The ironic thing here is that it is actually YOUR view that entails that the stuff of goodness is ultimately arbitrary and just a matter of taste. That the taste happens to be God's taste makes no nevermind: yours is a subjectivist view that makes morals and values truly arbitrary. After all, if you say that moral facts and values are determined solely at the discretion of some agent, that is more or less the definition of subjective and arbitrary. So in your quest to make morals objective, you have in fact made them subjective (because they depend constitutively on some agent's attitudes); and in your quest to make morals well-grounded, you have in fact made them truly arbitrary (more or less the definition of arbitrary). Way to go.

In your atheist worldview such standards are at best just some subjective matter of taste.

No, as I already pointed out, yours is the view that suffers from this malady. The general atheist can conclude that there are objective moral facts and that the facts are simply the facts, regardless of what anyone thinks about the matter. You, on the other hand, cannot because under your view moral facts depend on what God thinks. So, again, in your quest to outline objective standards, you have only succeeded in outlining standards that "are at best just some subjective matter of [God's] taste." Of course you can still claim that the moral facts are still the facts regardless of what any human thinks. But I am still left wondering what warrants your metaphysically privileging what God thinks on the matter.

You should also read Plato's dialogue the Euthyphro. Your solution of morals being under the discretion of an 'ultimate decider' (God) is no real solution at all. You have either made morals truly arbitrary; or you simply make God into a sort of moral intermediary.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=================================
Not to rule out the therapeutic aspects of opening up to what one takes as another, but yes. And I think if the pilot had been doing that instead of, you know, doing his job; then that would have been a gross negligence of sorts on his part.
==========================================

It depends upon who th ...[text shortened]... r the watch of someone as ignorant and arrogant as you. You do need much prayer.[/b]

His immediate responsibility is to his crew and passengers (as well as himself). If he can pray and do his job at the same time, then fine. If not, he should pray on his own time.

I'm not sure I would feel comfortable riding on any submarine under the watch of someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

That's just as well because I am not sure I would have felt comfortable with you on my crew. Especially if your reponse during a casualty would be to twiddle your thumbs and look to the heavens, doting on your 'ultimate responsibility' to the sky fairy; you would just get in the way.

Originally posted by jaywill
You have no way of knowing whether the prayers previously made even before the flight were answered. You are too arrogant. I pray often before driving or flying in a plane.

I am curious about what your views on prayer actually are.
Do you believe that God does in fact respond favorably to your prayers by actually reducing the number of accidents you are involved in?
Do you believe that God can prevent accidents?
Do you believe that God causes accidents?
Do you believe that before any accident God waits to see if there is anyone praying about it then decides whether to go ahead with it?

Originally posted by LemonJello
His immediate responsibility is to his crew and passengers (as well as himself). If he can pray and do his job at the same time, then fine. If not, he should pray on his own time.

[b]I'm not sure I would feel comfortable riding on any submarine under the watch of someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

That's just as well because I am not sur ...[text shortened]... s, doting on your 'ultimate responsibility' to the sky fairy; you would just get in the way.[/b]

=============================
His immediate responsibility is to his crew and passengers (as well as himself). If he can pray and do his job at the same time, then fine. If not, he should pray on his own time.
================================

Another ignorant fallacy. You assume that being responsible to God is automatically not being responsible to the people to whom you have been trained to protect.

You're one clueless bigot. You have nothing to offer in terms of wisdom in this realm of a responsible human being who is also godly.

=============================
I'm not sure I would feel comfortable riding on any submarine under the watch of someone as ignorant and arrogant as you.

That's just as well because I am not sure I would have felt comfortable with you on my crew. Especially if your reponse during a casualty would be to twiddle your thumbs and look to the heavens, doting on your 'ultimate responsibility' to the sky fairy; you would just get in the way.
========================================

Take your ignorant bigoted ideas with you to your grave. Your empty fairytale humanist atheistic world has no moral compass and no purpose, nuclear submarine or not.

I'd prefer to be in the crew of a man who had a reason to live anyway.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=============================
His immediate responsibility is to his crew and passengers (as well as himself). If he can pray and do his job at the same time, then fine. If not, he should pray on his own time.
================================

Another ignorant fallacy. You assume that being responsible to God is automatically not being re marine or not.

I'd prefer to be in the crew of a man who had a reason to live anyway.[/b]

You assume that being responsible to God is automatically not being responsible to the people to whom you have been trained to protect.

No, I didn't assume any such thing. Learn to read, jaywill! I just assumed that the pilot has an immediate, pressing responsibility to his crew and passengers. This doesn't preclude his being ultimately responsible (whatever that would mean) to God, or Zeus, or Santa Clause for that matter. But regardless of his ultimate responsibilty (if such a thing is not just a figment of your imagination), his proximate responsibility still demands that he do his frickin job to the best of his ability. Like I said, if he can pray and still achieve this at the same time, then fine. If he cannot, then he should save his praying for Sundays and the dinner table. And anyway, surely there is no conflict between his proximate responsibilities and his putative ultimate responsibilities here in this case, right? Surely a loving god wouldn't want the pilot's praying to get in the way of the pilot's saving lives, right?