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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    30 Jun '18 13:02 / 1 edit
    Is a lot of "RHP Christianity" actually a convoluted distorted Christian creed that appeals to people who want to believe in an afterlife while pontificating about "sin" and immorality but are afraid of being judged for how they themselves actually live their lives?
  2. 01 Jul '18 03:17
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Is a lot of "RHP Christianity" actually a convoluted distorted Christian creed that appeals to people who want to believe in an afterlife while pontificating about "sin" and immorality but are afraid of being judged for how they themselves actually live their lives?
    I think that is reasonable summary of what is portrayed in here much of the time.

    My experience is leading me to the conclusion that Christianity and religion in general has become hugely over-complicated through a desire by some to intellectualise simple biblical concepts.
  3. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    01 Jul '18 03:31
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I think that is reasonable summary of what is portrayed in here much of the time.

    My experience is leading me to the conclusion that Christianity and religion in general has become hugely over-complicated through a desire by some to intellectualise simple biblical concepts.
    What do you think is "judged" on "Judgement Day", so to speak?

    The brand of Christianity that many Christians profess here, when you boil it down to its essence and factor in the realities of the human condition, is an ideology of shedding personal responsibility for living a moral life along with a big dollop of 'I'm alright Jack'.
  4. 01 Jul '18 04:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What do you think is "judged" on "Judgement Day", so to speak
    Effectively nothing. Except maybe the life of Christ.

    Judgment doctrine teaches that there are two groups of people, those under condemnation and those not under condemnation. Those who are in Christ are “no longer under condemnation”, therefore those who are not in Christ are still under condemnation. However I am not convinced that the latter follows the former.

    The bible speaks of judgment day as people standing individually before god and “books being opened”, at least that’s how the vision goes in Revelation.

    So let’s try to think this through, we allegedly have a group of people who are no longer under condemnation and therefore not being judged and not having “books opened “ about them...? But it doesn’t say that as far as I remember, I think the bible talks about everyone being judged. Furthermore if everyone who is not in Christ will be “cast in the lake of fire”, what is the point of reading “books” about what they have done? Wouldn’t it be easier just to “edit, select all, delete/burn for eternity”.

    If I can therefore move to a place where everyone is being judged, then surely there is a hope for everyone and the judging is more about reward than punishment. In fact the bible speaks a lot about reward in heaven, about it being different for different people and therefore not being salvation itself.

    Finally if eternal torture is the “reward” for not being in Christ, then all the evil acts done in the world go unpunished. It is an interepation which doesn’t add up, doesn’t make any sense.

    So Christ died for all...and all are “saved”...but
    But we are all judged and rewarded according to our deeds.
    No one is tortured alive for all eternity for not believing in Jesus, they are just rewarded differently.

    This is the best sense I can make of it. No doubt sonship will be along shortly to post his scripture about Jesus saying people will be cast into the lake of fire and I will have to post psalm whatever it was and he will post his favourite scripture again ... and so on and so forth.
  5. Subscriber Ragwort
    Ex Duris Gloria
    01 Jul '18 05:25
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Is a lot of "RHP Christianity" actually a convoluted distorted Christian creed that appeals to people who want to believe in an afterlife while pontificating about "sin" and immorality but are afraid of being judged for how they themselves actually live their lives?
    If God is to be "perfect" Love then to me Christian Spirituality should be about finding a "way" to bring that into fruition in one's own life. A way that doesn't have all the answers before one starts, a way that begins with trust and faith rather than belief and a way that emphasises how we live in this life rather than arguing the doctrinal toss about what may happen afterwards if there is one. It's about letting one's life speak. Teresa of Avila said that Christ has no feet on earth but ours which is a sobering thought for any Christian looking to demonstrate this perfect love vision of God in their lives. Incidentally I see all that at odds with a vision of God as some sort of mafia boss figure extorting compliance with capricious threats. Personally I have yet to be convinced there is a life after death beyond in the memories of our nearest and dearest, but I can acknowledge something sacred or divine in life that also comes with some sort of imperative as to how it should be lived.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    01 Jul '18 06:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ragwort
    If God is to be "perfect" Love then to me Christian Spirituality should be about finding a "way" to bring that into fruition in one's own life. A way that doesn't have all the answers before one starts, a way that begins with trust and faith rather than belief and a way that emphasises how we live in this life rather than arguing the doctrinal toss about what may happen afterwards if there is one. It's about letting one's life speak.
    I have been around and among Christians all my life. The type that predominates here in this community ~ a rather unrepresentative lot, I'd say, at least in my experience ~ seem to have an ideology that involves thinking their way to an afterlife ~ thinking stuff rather than doing stuff:

    if they think certain supernatural things are true, they tell themselves... and anyone who'll listen... then they believe - and declare - they are "forgiven" and "saved" [already, no less].

    Only some tiny, tiny percentage of posts by such ideologues relate to action, behaviour, obligations, dilemmas, issues, and the nitty-gritty of actually navigating a path for a Christian life whilst obeying Jesus' commands ~ except only in the most pretentious and self-servingly abstract ways.

    They only pay lip service to the issue of how one lives one's life. The ideology is The Thing ~ and seemingly The Thing never includes the applications or real-world implications of the ideology. At least in many cases here.

    There was one high volume poster here recently who seemed to insist that one should not make any proactive effort to do good works but should instead just let some sort of supernatural 'force' do what it wants with the believer ~ and if the 'force' doesn't make the believer do much, then that is 'God's will' and it doesn't matter: if one simply believes in the existence of that supernatural 'force', then one is "forgiven" and "saved" anyway, come what may.

    Sometimes it sounds like little more than a kind of elaborate cop-out.

    So, it would seem we are in agreement, although I appreciate that you might not necessarily endorse all the edges that are to be found in my version of it..
  7. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    01 Jul '18 06:17
    Originally posted by @ragwort
    If God is to be "perfect" love then to me Christian Spirituality should be about [...] some sort of imperative as to how it should be lived.
    You should post more often, by the way.
  8. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 06:35 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @fmf
    You should post more often, by the way.
    Weren't these the exact same words you used to lure Jacob V here a while back before you went at him full on with your smear campaign?
  9. Standard member Ghost of a Dukeonline
    Zen Master
    01 Jul '18 07:10
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Weren't these the exact same words you used to lure Jacob V, here a while back before you went at him full on with your smear campaign?
    You should post less often.
  10. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 07:34
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Is a lot of "RHP Christianity" actually a convoluted distorted Christian creed that appeals to people who want to believe in an afterlife while pontificating about "sin" and immorality but are afraid of being judged for how they themselves actually live their lives?
    If there are no moral absolutes why shouldn't everyone just do as they see fit?
  11. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 07:35
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    You should post less often.
    Touche.
  12. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 08:10
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Is a lot of "RHP Christianity" actually a convoluted distorted Christian creed that appeals to people who want to believe in an afterlife while pontificating about "sin" and immorality but are afraid of being judged for how they themselves actually live their lives?
    If there is no absolute truth everyone can view everyone else's views as convoluted and distorted without anyone being right or wrong about it. Who is to say your views aren't convoluted and distorted?
  13. Standard member Ghost of a Dukeonline
    Zen Master
    01 Jul '18 08:46
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If there are no moral absolutes why shouldn't everyone just do as they see fit?
    Do you think there is a special prize if you ask this question 100 times? (And have you seriously forgotten the answers people have given to this tiresome question? )
  14. 01 Jul '18 10:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    You should post less often.
    He does now that “Romans1009 “ has been deactivated.
  15. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    01 Jul '18 12:13
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Do you think there is a special prize if you ask this question 100 times? (And have you seriously forgotten the answers people have given to this tiresome question? )
    Do you think there is a special prize for pretending to have answered a question that you clearly haven’t?