Originally posted by FMF
Humans have de facto greater value because they have the capacity to attach and express such value to themselves and also demonstrate it. This is a philosophical debate in the human realm. There is no philosophical debate - or competition - with the animal kingdom about how humans perceive themselves.

"There is no philosophical debate - or competition - with the animal kingdom about how humans perceive themselves."

We are unable to know that, since we can't yet read the mind of other animals, or communicate with them.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you hold the view that life evolved from a chemical soup, does life have any value? Is it sacred?

Apparently gorilla's lives are more sacred?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you hold the view that life evolved from a chemical soup, does life have any value? Is it sacred?

Does life only have value if it comes from a god?

"Value" is not intrinsic. A group of people can believe that killing is wrong, yet believe in sentencing someone to death for it. Does a killer's life become less valuable after committing murder? Does a life become more value for saving someone's life (like rescuing them from a burning building)?

"Value" changes constantly. We assign value to lives all the time. The religious right in the U.S. do it constantly, with their support of "blow them into oblivion" presidential candidates, while claiming to be "pro-life". Those same people belief life is precious because God created it, but think God has a right to throw those same precious lives into an eternal torment. Words like "sacred", then, are meaningless.

We can observe that many human beings (and animals) believe being alive is important. That's clear from how they react when they believe they may die, or if their offspring is threatened. The very strong and wide-spread desire to live, as well as the desire for others to live, is what gives life its worth; not any objective criteria.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you hold the view that life evolved from a chemical soup, does life have any value? Is it sacred?

Human life has no objective value. But it has much subjective value.

FMF: "There is no philosophical debate - or competition - with the animal kingdom about how humans perceive themselves."

Originally posted by vivify
We are unable to know that, since we can't yet read the mind of other animals, or communicate with them.

My point exactly. If we can't communicate with them and they can't communicate with us, then there is no debate with animals going on about how humans perceive themselves etc.

Originally posted by vivify
Does life only have value if it comes from a god?

"Value" is not intrinsic. A group of people can believe that killing is wrong, yet believe in sentencing someone to death for it. Does a killer's life become less valuable after committing murder? Does a life become more value for saving someone's life (like rescuing them from a burning building)?

" ...[text shortened]... well as the desire for others to live, is what gives life its worth; not any objective criteria.

Does life only have value if it comes from a god?

Don't think life can have objective intrinsic value if God did not create it.

Originally posted by rwingett
Human life has no objective value. But it has much subjective value.

Human life has no objective value

Is this your opinion or are you stating this as a fact?

Originally posted by FMF
My point exactly. If we can't communicate with them and they can't communicate with us, then there is no debate with animals going on about how humans perceive themselves etc.

My cat quite clearly values her life as well as that of her kitten. She may even put value on my life, but doesn't show it except at meal time or when she needs the door opened.
I do communicate with my cat when she feels like it.
A fancy philosophical debate is simply not necessary.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b]Human life has no objective value

Is this your opinion or are you stating this as a fact?[/b]

'Value' itself is necessarily subjective. 'Value' must have a referent entity that places the value on something. It is never, ever objective. It would be illogical.

Originally posted by twhitehead
'Value' itself is necessarily subjective. 'Value' must have a referent entity that places the value on something. It is never, ever objective. It would be illogical.

What about intrinsic value?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b]Does life only have value if it comes from a god?

Don't think life can have objective intrinsic value if God did not create it.[/b]

What about objective intrinsic absolute value?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you hold the view that life evolved from a chemical soup, does life have any value? Is it sacred?

For us to agree on any measurement there must be an agreement on how we measure. Ex to say something is three inches we have to agree what an inch is.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
What about intrinsic value?

It is not objective. It is necessarily subjective to some valuer. What has intrinsic value to you, may not have intrinsic value to me.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
What about objective intrinsic absolute value?

No what you really want are those "absolute objective absolute intrinsic absolute absolute values"

Those are the ones you can really be sure of.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk (OP)
If you hold the view that life evolved from a chemical soup, does life have any value? Is it sacred?

Yes.

Why?

Because every human being is dichotomous: body and soul which will live at one of two addresses for eternity..