Is the Holy Bible relevant to today's world?

Originally posted by rhb
Lesson 1:

Take it to Spirituality, Spanky.

Lesson 2:

See lesson 1.

excuse me, but i thought we WERE in the Spiriituality forum?

Originally posted by PBE6
I have a question for you...is IBIJ relevant to today's economic and geopolitical climate?

obviously NOT!

Originally posted by Phlabibit
Lesson 3. Alert as "wrong forum".

P-

"WRONG FORUM?" why is this not the right forum? what IS the correct forum?

Is the Bible relevant for today ? I bet there is no one reading this Forum who can deny that this Bible passage exactly discribes their life situation:

" ... For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice, but what I hate, this I do.

But if what I do not will, this I do, I agree with the law that it is good.

Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not.

For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice.

But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me.

I find then the law with me who wills to do the good, that is, the evil is present with me.

I delight in the law of God according to the inner man, But I see a different law in my menbers, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in myu members.

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? " (Romans 7:15-24)

This is the situation of all people. I challenge anyone to try to deny it. We know what is the good that we should do. But there is another power working in us driving us to do that which we do not agree with and which our conscience is not pleased.

Sure the Holy Bible is relevant to today. I mean Today.

Here is where we need to experience its further relevancy in the same passage:


"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ ... There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death" (Romans 7:24,25a, 8:1,2)

Paul experienced this salvation 2,000 years ago and it is still available to us today thanks to the resurrected and living Christ Jesus.

Originally posted by jaywill
Is the Bible relevant for today ? I bet there is no one reading this Forum who can deny that this Bible passage exactly discribes their life situation:

[b]" ... For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice, but what I hate, this I do.

But if what I do not will, this I do, I agree with the law that it is good.

N ago and it is still available to us today thanks to the resurrected and living Christ Jesus.

[/b] This is the situation of all people. I challenge anyone to try to deny it.

Well, on the one hand, this could describe anyone who has ever made an error of judgment. It can also describe any physical addiction, or psychological compulsive/obsessive disorders, etc.

On the other hand, I think it hardly describes all—or even most—of our deciding and doing. If the question is merely one of “Have you ever. . .?”, then it is likely accurate.

If the claim is that this is the inherent condition, and/or that all or most of our thinking and behavior is thereby described, then I do deny it. It is not an accurate description of my life generally. I pretty much do exactly what I will, and have some (though really quite little) experience of doing something that I hate while I’m doing it (excepting such things as going to the doctor). There are things that, after the fact, I regret, but as the song says—

“Regrets, I’ve had a few, but then again, too few to mention.”

EDIT: I neither claim that my errors are not mine, nor that they are attributable to something/someone “other than I” working in me. I am responsible for what I think, will and do within the general conditions of existence.

Originally posted by jaywill
Is the Bible relevant for today ? I bet there is no one reading this Forum who can deny that this Bible passage exactly discribes their life situation:

[b]" ... For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice, but what I hate, this I do.

But if what I do not will, this I do, I agree with the law that it is good.

N ...[text shortened]... go and it is still available to us today thanks to the resurrected and living Christ Jesus.[/b]

I don't agree that the law is good in all cases.

Nor do I agree that Romans is necessarily relevant for any time. Those who are guilty are justified because someone else's blood was spilled? Come on. (Romans 5:9)

Originally posted by Stregone
"WRONG FORUM?" why is this not the right forum? what IS the correct forum?

This is the correct forum, but the thread was started in the General forum. It was moved to Spirituality by a moderator.

Visted

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Well, on the one hand, this could describe anyone who has ever made an error of judgment. It can also describe any physical addiction, or psychological compulsive/obsessive disorders, etc.
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There are still a few of them around. So, the Bible is relevant to today. You agree don't you?


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On the other hand, I think it hardly describes all—or even most—of our deciding and doing. If the question is merely one of “Have you ever. . .?”, then it is likely accurate.
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I don't think I said that it described all of our deciding and doing. I think it does discribe a considerable amount of our problems.

Granted, there are varying degrees of self control. And some of us by force of will power do NOT always do the evil that we do not agree with. Man has a kind of "break system." And some of us in many cases do apply the "break system".

That breaking system (though not nearly strong enough) is also revealed in the Bible further demonstrating its relevance to today. So your complaint actually argues for the modern relevance of the Bible rather than against it.

Would you like to try a society without the Bible's influence?

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If the claim is that this is the inherent condition, and/or that all or most of our thinking and behavior is thereby described, then I do deny it.
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I don't think I said that it discribes every action. I do repeat that I challenge anyone to deny they have no experience of such a matter. Probably in crucial moments in their lives they experienced such a matter.

The Bible is relevant to 2007 AD.

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It is not an accurate description of my life generally. I pretty much do exactly what I will, and have some (though really quite little) experience of doing something that I hate while I’m doing it (excepting such things as going to the doctor). There are things that, after the fact, I regret, but as the song says—
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It may not be as applicable to your experience as you were not a zealous Jew, as Paul was trying hard to keep the law of Moses.

But you have many self made laws. Don't you too often fall short of living up to your own self made axioms of good behavior?


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“Regrets, I’ve had a few, but then again, too few to mention.”

EDIT: I neither claim that my errors are not mine, nor that they are attributable to something/someone “other than I” working in me. I am responsible for what I think, will and do within the general conditions of existence.
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The responsibility that the book of Romans deals with is not responding to the gospel of Christ when it is presented as a way out of sin and sinning.

Therefore, having sin drive us in a direction we do not want to go becomes a matter of guilt when we refuse salvation and forgiveness through Christ.

Obviously, Paul IS taking responsibility for whether or not he allows himself to be delivered from sin by Jesus Christ.

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don't agree that the law is good in all cases.
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Unfortunately, he who breaks one of the commandments is as guilty as having broken all of the commandments. That's what is taught there in the Bible.

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Nor do I agree that Romans is necessarily relevant for any time. Those who are guilty are justified because someone else's blood was spilled? Come on. (Romans 5:9)
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The redemption of Christ justifies the believer. And this lays the foundation for the believer to receive the divine Spirit and life of God. Then having been justified by Christ substitutionary death as to eternity, she or he learns to live by the new nature of God dispensed into their being.

So full salvation has justification as a bass and life impartation as a result. The purpose is to forgive man and to transform man into the image of Christ.

Is the Bible relevant to today?

Yes, because God is eternal.

How come centries of opposition from within the church and without the church have not destroyed the existence of the Bible?

People were burned to death so that you could pick up a Bible and read it. Why don't you take it off the shelf and dust it off. Realize that somebody was burnt at the stake to give you the right to read the Bible.

To the Bible is not relevant to today people - I'd like one of you to explain WHY you are here in the universe and what the purpose of your life really is.

If you can't answer, then I recommend that you calm down and listen to what the Bible has to say this year.

Originally posted by jaywill
Visted

[b]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, on the one hand, this could describe anyone who has ever made an error of judgment. It can also describe any physical addiction, or psychological compulsive/obsessive disorders, etc.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There are still a few of them around. So, the Bible is relevant to today. You agr ...[text shortened]... sibility for whether or not he allows himself to be delivered from sin by Jesus Christ.[/b]

I don't think I said that it describes every action. I do repeat that I challenge anyone to deny they have no experience of such a matter.

Okay. As I said, in that limited sense I think it is—at least in my experience—accurate.

It may not be as applicable to your experience as you were not a zealous Jew, as Paul was trying hard to keep the law of Moses.

Yes, that’s a very relevant consideration.

But you have many self made laws. Don't you too often fall short of living up to your own self made axioms of good behavior?

Actually, in my case, I do better when I follow what seems the natural course, rather than adhering to made-up laws—mine or others’. I don’t say this lightly, since it is an issue that I have had to personally confront.

Nevertheless, “trying to be good” assumes that one would not be good without effort—that somehow “being good” goes against the natural grain. (I realize that “trying to be good” was not your phrase; but it does seem tied in, at least for me, with the notion that one needs a stated “law” to know what “good” is.)

Now, it’s quite possible that, by applying some religious or philosophical template, you would conclude that some of my actions, that I would—in retrospect, and with examination—consider “good” (or, at least, the best possible course under the circumstances), are in fact “bad”. You are certainly free to do that. But, just as I am responsible for my actions, you are responsible for choosing and applying such a template. [Take that as a general “you”; you personally have not charged me with anything. 🙂 ]

One of the things that I have often argued is that no law or moral “template” (whether attributed to divine agency or not) can absolve one of basic self-responsibility.

Originally posted by IBIJ
Well?

Yes.

Do you happen to have a set of keys on you?

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]I don't think I said that it describes every action. I do repeat that I challenge anyone to deny they have no experience of such a matter.

Okay. As I said, in that limited sense I think it is—at least in my experience—accurate.

It may not be as applicable to your experience as you were not a zealous Jew, as Paul was trying hard to keep the l ...[text shortened]... te” (whether attributed to divine agency or not) can absolve one of basic self-responsibility.

Do you happen to have a set of keys on you?