12 Apr 14
Between saying
1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
and
2. It is ok for those who belong to Christ to sin.
To me both statements sound like a 'get-away-from-sin free card'.
It would be nice if any responses are brief and to the point rather than the normal rambling and confused cut and pastes that are now common.
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't agree with either of them.
Between saying
1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
and
2. It is ok for those who belong to Christ to sin.
To me both statements sound like a 'get-away-from-sin free card'.
It would be nice if any responses are brief and to the point rather than the normal rambling and confused cut and pastes that are now common.
Hopefully one isn't scripture!
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999A knotty theological problem. There were two schools of thought, historically:
Between saying
1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
and
2. It is ok for those who belong to Christ to sin.
To me both statements sound like a 'get-away-from-sin free card'.
It would be nice if any responses are brief and to the point rather than the normal rambling and confused cut and pastes that are now common.
1) Christ's sacrifice cleansed mankind of sin, collectively, once and for all time.
2) Christ's sacrifice reset the counter to zero at that time, but mankind continue to need redemption in each and every generation. Hence, the continuing need for the Body of Christ in the World (i.e., the Church) to perform certain sacramental rituals and propagate the message.
Be careful which side you take. I'll give you a clue: one side was denounced as heretical, and heretics don't get to heaven.
Neither side said its position amounted to a 'get out of jail free card', if that's what you wanted to know. Being forgiven does not mean its "ok" to sin--what was forgiven was not any particular sin per se, but sinfulness as a general tendency of mankind (part of his corrupt nature, as a result of the fall of Adam). Both sides agreed on that.
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999
Between saying
1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
and
2. It is ok for those who belong to Christ to sin.
To me both statements sound like a 'get-away-from-sin free card'.
It would be nice if any responses are brief and to the point rather than the normal rambling and confused cut and pastes that are now common.
1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
Well your statement has a couple of problems, IMO.
1. I agree that all sin is covered by Christ, and his blood. This happens when somebody accepts the sacrifice that Jesus made for them on the cross as an atonement for their sins. Belonging to him means we 'choose' to turn from the sinful nature of this life and choose life in Christ.
2. As far as punishment... I think a life without Christ is a life without God and is a separation from God. It is not a punishment from God, because we make the decision. A life that is not covered by the blood of Christ, meaning our sins, means the sin nature is alive in our flesh and rules. it is sin that will be judged and punished. If a person never accepts Christ and dies in their sins, it will mean death, according to scripture.
Romans 6:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You see, we have a decision to make.
2. It is ok for those who belong to Christ to sin.
No, it is not ok for those who belong to Christ to sin, continue in sin. But we do! However, scripture tells us...
1 John 1:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
In the words of Jesus to the woman at the well...
John 8:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
What does coming to Christ mean?
1) our sins are forgiven because what Christ has done for us to those who believe and accept his sacrifice.
2) we turn from sin and are no longer a slave to sin.
3) if we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins.
4) we do not now get a license to continue in sin, we need to turn.
Not short, but not rambling either.
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999You take things out of context, and twist words to get them to push a
Between saying
1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
and
2. It is ok for those who belong to Christ to sin.
To me both statements sound like a 'get-away-from-sin free card'.
It would be nice if any responses are brief and to the point rather than the normal rambling and confused cut and pastes that are now common.
meaning only you want them to say. Sort of reminds me of how the
devil tempted Christ with God's words.
Kelly
12 Apr 14
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you have a response to the opening post?
You take things out of context, and twist words to get them to push a
meaning only you want them to say. Sort of reminds me of how the
devil tempted Christ with God's words.
Kelly
Maybe you can explain what I am twisting.
The first one is your statement. The second is mine.
What exactly am i twisting or taking out of context?
12 Apr 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999In the context of our conversation, our conversation was speaking about
FMF said this and you said YES to it :
"all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
It is therefore as if you said it.
those that are saved and those that are not. Those that are saved have
their sins covered by the blood of the lamb, you twisted that conversation
into me saying people can sin as if it were nothing! I have NEVER said that
we can sin and it is meaningless, I've never said we can go on sinning as
if God will now forgive all our lawlessness and we never have to obey God.
Are you saying no man or woman's sins are covered by Jesus Christ?
Kelly
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by KellyJaySome Christians sins are indeed covered by Christ and there is no doubt about that.
In the context of our conversation, our conversation was speaking about
those that are saved and those that are not. Those that are saved have
their sins covered by the blood of the lamb, you twisted that conversation
into me saying people can sin as if it were nothing! I have NEVER said that
we can sin and it is meaningless, I've never said we can go o ...[text shortened]... r have to obey God.
Are you saying no man or woman's sins are covered by Jesus Christ?
Kelly
Now your turn. ARE ALL CHRISTIANS SINS COVERED?
12 Apr 14
1 edit
Originally posted by yoctobyteNot short and not rambling but not relevant either.1. "all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
Well your statement has a couple of problems, IMO.
1. I agree that all sin is covered by Christ, and his blood. This happens when somebody accepts the sacrifice that Jesus made for them on the cross as an atonement ...[text shortened]... now get a license to continue in sin, we need to turn.
Not short, but not rambling either.
The issue is as follows:
A Christian accepts Christ and the pastor proclaims that HE IS SAVED ..HALLELUJAH. .PRAISE THE LORD !! The man proceeds to live a sinful lifestyle to the day he dies.
Do you think that this verse could apply to him?
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Who does that passage apply to?
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Since you were saved, have you sinned?
Not short and not rambling but not relevant either.
The issue is as follows:
A Christian accepts Christ and the pastor proclaims that HE IS SAVED ..HALLELUJAH. .PRAISE THE LORD !! The man proceeds to live a sinful lifestyle to the day he dies.
Do you think that this verse could apply to him?
For it is impossible for those who were once enligh ...[text shortened]... sh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Who does that passage apply to?
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by yoctobyteI dont know about this 'saved' business.
Since you were saved, have you sinned?
I am baptised into Jesus Christ. I make every effort to avoid sin, and follow as best as I can his teachings. I live in the hope that when he returns I might be rewarded with eternal life in Gods kingdom.
You did not answer the question I asked.
It would be nice if you could focus on the topic and dont make this personal about me or you or anyone else participating in the thread.
12 Apr 14
Originally posted by Rajk999Ok, skip the term saved. When you committed yourself to Christ.
I dont know about this 'saved' business.
I am baptised into Jesus Christ. I make every effort to avoid sin, and follow as best as I can his teachings. I live in the hope that when he returns I might be rewarded with eternal life in Gods kingdom.
You did not answer the question I asked.
It would be nice if you could focus on the topic and dont make this personal about me or you or anyone else participating in the thread.
When you sin, I assume you have based on your statement because you did not say 'no', what do you do?