@philokalia saidIf thinking about someone being executed by the Romans fills a kind of vacuum or hole in your life and if the way it has you dreaming about your own immortality helps you cope with and navigate your way through the vicissitudes and perceived is-this-all-there-is?-ness of life, good for you. If it results in you acting in a morally sound way, great. If it spurs you on to selfless philanthropic acts, I welcome it wholeheartedly.
Maybe we actually shrink everything...
The world happens & continues to happen.
But the God-man mounted a cross and died for everyone's sins so that those who believed in Him would enter the Kingdom of God.
Maybe just the three hours on the cross were enough.
Maybe the world is too much.
See? We can all play games about scope & perception.
@philokalia saidI would not have characterized what the Christians do here as "play games about scope and perception" ~ but it's interesting that you have made that suggestion. For my part, I find their thoughts about "scope and perception" regarding life to be sincere and serious.
We can all play games about scope & perception.
@philokalia saidRegarding the Passion as substitutionary atonement -- I wonder if the wrong emphasis with all its complications has come to the forefront.
Maybe we actually shrink everything...
The world happens & continues to happen.
But the God-man mounted a cross and died for everyone's sins so that those who believed in Him would enter the Kingdom of God.
Maybe just the three hours on the cross were enough.
Maybe the world is too much.
See? We can all play games about scope & perception.
Another way of reading that is the example of a God-minded person who endured terrible consequences while still trusting fully in the One behind the scenes.
Very similar to the Hasidic Jews who danced with joy and sang praises to God on their way into the ovens.
@caesar-salad saidI fully embrace the "meta" (for lack of a better word) of Christ on the cross:
Regarding the Passion as substitutionary atonement -- I wonder if the wrong emphasis with all its complications has come to the forefront.
Another way of reading that is the example of a God-minded person who endured terrible consequences while still trusting fully in the One behind the scenes.
Very similar to the Hasidic Jews who danced with joy and sang praises to God on their way into the ovens.
The previous instances of ritualized blood sacrifice were all stand-ins and rehearsals for the ultimate blood sacrifice, and the only one that was actually necessary (and the one that occurred across time) -- that of Christ's. Through His death, the ability to all to enter the Kingdom of God through repentance and through union with God was created.
This is what my Church believes in regarding this -- I do not think it clashes that much with Western Christian concepts, but it certainly has a different flavor.
The Recapitulation Theory agrees that God needed to deal with man’s sin. Man was separated from God as a result of the fall and, left to his own devices, was incapable of returning to God. However, Recapitulation sees the model through which God dealt with man’s sin as a hospital rather than a courtroom. Instead of viewing the atonement as Christ paying the price for sin in order to satisfy a wrathful God, Recapitulation teaches that Christ became human to heal mankind by perfectly uniting the human nature to the Divine Nature in His person. Through the Incarnation, Christ took on human nature, becoming the Second Adam, and entered into every stage of humanity, from infancy to adulthood, uniting it to God. He then suffered death to enter Hades and destroy it. After three days, He resurrected and completed His task by destroying death.
By entering each of these stages and remaining perfectly obedient to the Father, Christ recapitulated every aspect of human nature. He said “Yes” where Adam said “No” and healed what Adam’s actions had damaged. This enables all of those who are willing to say yes to God to be perfectly united with the Holy Trinity through Christ’s person. In addition, by destroying death, Christ reversed the consequence of the fall. Now, all can be resurrected. Those who choose to live their life in Christ can be perfectly united to the Holy Trinity, receiving the full love of God as Heavenly bliss. However, those who reject Christ and choose to live their lives chasing after their passions will receive the love of God as hell.
https://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2011/11/09/the-recapitulation-theory/
-Removed-Right, it was the God-Man who died on the Cross.
I was responding to this:
Another way of reading that is the example of a God-minded person who endured terrible consequences while still trusting fully in the One behind the scenes.
I guess I could have been more careful in my series of responses because Jesus Christ was not a man.
@philokalia saidThat's funny, I thought these ideas were basic Christianity, western OR eastern.
I fully embrace the "meta" (for lack of a better word) of Christ on the cross:
The previous instances of ritualized blood sacrifice were all stand-ins and rehearsals for the ultimate blood sacrifice, and the only one that was actually necessary (and the one that occurred across time) -- that of Christ's. Through His death, the ability to all to enter the Kingdom of God ...[text shortened]... God as hell.[/quote]
https://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2011/11/09/the-recapitulation-theory/
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@philokalia saidHowever, this is NOT 'basic Christianity.'
I guess I could have been more careful in my series of responses because Jesus Christ was not a man.
Christ was fully God and fully human. This is what enabled him to take on the sin of man, and to be the 'God-man'.
@philokalia saidThank you. I had not heard of the Recapitulation Theory.
I fully embrace the "meta" (for lack of a better word) of Christ on the cross:
The previous instances of ritualized blood sacrifice were all stand-ins and rehearsals for the ultimate blood sacrifice, and the only one that was actually necessary (and the one that occurred across time) -- that of Christ's. Through His death, the ability to all to enter the Kingdom of God ...[text shortened]... God as hell.[/quote]
https://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2011/11/09/the-recapitulation-theory/