1. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    12 Jan '08 19:55
    What's the relationship? Some Christians have told me that Israel is a central figure in the End Times and there are prophecies involved. Can anyone point me to the parts of the Bible in question?
  2. Donationrwingett
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    12 Jan '08 20:18
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What's the relationship? Some Christians have told me that Israel is a central figure in the End Times and there are prophecies involved. Can anyone point me to the parts of the Bible in question?
    It's probably in the Book of Revelations.
  3. Donationkirksey957
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    12 Jan '08 20:36
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What's the relationship? Some Christians have told me that Israel is a central figure in the End Times and there are prophecies involved. Can anyone point me to the parts of the Bible in question?
    I'm the only one you need to listen to in regard to this. I'll tell it to you straight. Over time you will get different "prophecies" based on world events. During the cold war,it was always Russia, the great bear, that would decscend upon Israel. You will also hear about China and now you will probably hear about Iran. Hell, in time, even Hugo Chavez will make it into the line-up. It's all BS.

    Some people just have to have excitement in their lives and this is the way to do it. Right now they should be praying for the stock market.
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    12 Jan '08 20:40
    Originally posted by kirksey957

    Right now they should be praying for the stock market.
    Amen, brotha.
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    12 Jan '08 22:13
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What's the relationship? Some Christians have told me that Israel is a central figure in the End Times and there are prophecies involved. Can anyone point me to the parts of the Bible in question?
    The driving force enfluencing when Jesus comes physically back to this earth is within a group of praying Christians. As they are being saturated with Christ and petitioning for Him to fulfill His will, that is drawing Him closer and closer to returning.

    The nation things happening with Israel are probably depending on what things are happening in the Christian church with this group of overcoming believers.

    As believers in Christ we should not be simply passively waiting for this sign or that sign to signal His coming. We should be "hastening" the day of the Lord by turning ourselves over to His filling and saturating process.
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    12 Jan '08 22:26
    Originally posted by jaywill
    His filling and saturating process.
    Sounds icky.
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    12 Jan '08 22:26
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The driving force enfluencing when Jesus comes physically back to this earth is within a group of praying Christians. As they are being saturated with Christ and petitioning for Him to fulfill His will, that is drawing Him closer and closer to returning.

    The nation things happening with Israel are probably depending on what things are happening in the Ch ...[text shortened]... astening" the day of the Lord by turning ourselves over to His filling and saturating process.
    Revelation (not RevelationS as in plural) shows the prayers of the believers causing Christ to react and cast fire into the earth:

    Revelation 8:3-5.

    The incense ascending up in the hand of the Angel depict that these prayers of the believers on earth have mixed with them the flavor and fragrance of Jesus Himself.

    In other words these are the prayers of people who are living Christ. And because Christ is in their living their requests are flavored with His essence ascending up to God. This is like sweet smelling incense to God.

    They live and pray according to Christ. And as a reaction to their living through Christ and praying through Christ, Christ starts the events of the last days.

    God seeks a group of people to cooperate with Him to bring Jesus back to the earth.

    OF course the outward signs of Israel becomming once again a nation and Jerusalem returning to the Jews are positive signs. These made many students of Bible prophecy sit up and take notice that "summer [was] near".

    I hope His return comes in my life time. I hope that I do not expire but live to see Christ touch down again upon this earth. I am preparing myself all the time for His coming.

    There is nothing else worth living for which is so meaningful to me. I live for His coming again.
  8. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    12 Jan '08 22:41
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What's the relationship? Some Christians have told me that Israel is a central figure in the End Times and there are prophecies involved. Can anyone point me to the parts of the Bible in question?
    Israel would be the central figure because the religion that talks about that particular end-time scenario was centered in Israel. Most of the scenario is as vague as a fortune cookie or horoscope. Wars? There have always been wars. There is no time in history that I know of in which there were absolutely no groups of people killing off others. Some powerful Great Satan sort of country? Of course. Every national group has some opposing bad guy; this can't be pinned down to just one time and place. Rev was right on target (except for losing me with the stock market part).
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    12 Jan '08 23:252 edits
    So there's utterly no Biblical basis for assuming Israel will have anything to do with the End Times? Revelation 8:3-5 does not refer to Israel.

    Maybe Isaiah 60:12? That one says all nations must serve Israel or perish.

    Wow.

    According to Christianity, all nations must serve Israel or perish. That is f*ing SCARY!
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    12 Jan '08 23:321 edit
    ================================

    Most of the scenario is as vague as a fortune cookie or horoscope.

    =============================================


    There are things in Revelation which have nothing akin to horoscopes or fortune cookies.

    We can expect a ten king or ten nation federation. We can expect the temple in Jerusalem to be built at the time of the last three and one half years of this age before Christ's millennial kingdom.

    A rebuilt temple is rather specific. A ten nation federation turning over their authority to one great dictator seems rather specific.

    A seven year treaty broken in the middle of the seven years seems rather specific. See Daniel and Revelation.

    Though there have been wars plenty and famines plenty, Revelation and the Gospels speak of supernatural calamities which I expect scientists will have difficulty explaining.

    The roaring of the sea and men's hearts failing them at the anxiety of what is coming on the world. The mark of the beast upon the forehead and hand of his subjects seems rather specific to me.

    I don't think we could say Revelation is totally general about some of these details.
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    12 Jan '08 23:48
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Revelation (not RevelationS as in plural) shows the prayers of the believers causing Christ to react and cast fire into the earth:

    Revelation 8:3-5.

    The incense ascending up in the hand of the Angel depict that these prayers of the believers on earth have mixed with them the flavor and fragrance of Jesus Himself.

    In other words these are the pr ...[text shortened]... re is nothing else worth living for which is so meaningful to me. I live for His coming again.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all that just crazy talk?
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    12 Jan '08 23:571 edit
    ==========================

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all that just crazy talk?

    ============================


    No, I don't think Revelation is crazy talk.

    But I think one should have read much of the Bible before expecting to obtain much from Revelation. Because Revelation is the climax of the divine revelation of the entire Bible.

    Or most of the themes which are developed in the Bible elsewhere have someting of their consummation in the book of Revelation.

    So it is the grand finale of the Bible.
  13. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    13 Jan '08 00:10
    Originally posted by jaywill

    No, I don't think Revelation is crazy talk.

    But I think one should have read much of the Bible before expecting to obtain much from Revelation. Because Revelation is the climax of the divine revelation of the entire Bible.

    Or most of the themes which are developed in the Bible elsewhere have someting of their consummation in the book of Revelation.

    So it is the grand finale of the Bible.
    Bitchin'.
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    13 Jan '08 00:20
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Bitchin'.
    Bitchin ??

    Now that sounds like crazy talk.
  15. Donationkirksey957
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    13 Jan '08 00:47
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Bitchin ??

    Now that sounds like crazy talk.
    He's just talkin bout the whore of Babylon.
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