Israel and the End Times

Originally posted by kirksey957
He's just talkin bout the whore of Babylon.

We have to learn to turn to our spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is - if we are regenerated. We have to read the Bible with the excercise of our regenerated human spirit.

Four times in Revelation the writer says that he was in spirit.

The vision he saw he saw while he was in spirit. His spirit is his regenerated and Holy Spirit indwelt human spirit.

Then we have to set the mind on the spirit where the Spirit of Jesus indwells the regenerated one, and read the Bible with the excercise of our praying mingled spirit.

John says "I was in spirit on the Lord's Day." We have to read the whole Bible in the sphere of the our spirit mingled with the Holy Spirit. Otherwise we get no spiritual value out of reading the Bible.

Originally posted by jaywill
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Most of the scenario is as vague as a fortune cookie or horoscope.

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There are things in Revelation which have nothing akin to horoscopes or fortune cookies.

We can expect a ten king or ten nation federation. We can expect the temple in Jerusalem to be bui ...[text shortened]... e.

I don't think we could say Revelation is totally general about some of these details.[/b]

But we don't know how much of that is literal and how much of that is figurative. Don't forget that Jesus claimed he would tear down the temple and rebuild it in three days, which people interpreted literally but he apparently didn't mean it that way. The Book of Revelation is similar. So a "rebuilt temple" could mean the actual temple or could be just as figurative as it was the first time.

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But we don't know how much of that is literal and how much of that is figurative. Don't forget that Jesus claimed he would tear down the temple and rebuild it in three days,
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Jesus did not say that He would tear down the temple and build it in three days. He told the people to destroy "this temple" and in three days He would raise it up again.

His apostle says that He spoke of the temple of His body. So this was a prophecy of His resurrection.

Secondly, discerning what we should take figuratively from what should be taken more literally, is a skill to be learned. This requires years of study and also spiritual experience. Such a skill requires time to develop.

I usually have good reasons for explaining why a passage should be taken figuratively, symbolically, or more litereally, or a combination of both.

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which people interpreted literally but he apparently didn't mean it that way. The Book of Revelation is similar. So a "rebuilt temple" could mean the actual temple or could be just as figurative as it was the first time
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There are reasons why we should understand the "temple" in one way or another. It is not entirely left up to guess work.

For the Christian to understand Revelation first she or he must read it thoroughly enough to master all the facts. You have to be clear about the facts.

You must know all the facts, everything that is said. Then the task of proper interpretation can be started.

You also have to know where else in the Bible that certain thing is mentioned. There is probably nothing "new" in the book of Revelation. All things are mentioned previously in the Bible in some form.

By knowing the previous significance of those things you may be aided to understand what their significance is in the book of Revelation. The book is a culmination of ideas planted and developed in previous books.

There is nothing new there. You must know how a certain symbol was previously used.

And we must also learn from others who spent years in the past studying this book. We can greatly benefit from the some of the studies of the past. We can build up them.

We need the Holy Spirit. We need the fellowship of the apostles and prophets.

But there is a special blessing associated with simply reading the book. I encourage anyone to read the book of Revelation aloud at least once in their liife.

You will be blessed just by reading it aloud. Just reading it period yields a great blessing. Read it and look for Christ mainly.

Originally posted by jaywill
We have to learn to turn to our spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is - if we are regenerated. We have to read the Bible with the excercise of our regenerated human spirit.

Four times in Revelation the writer says that he was in spirit.

The vision he saw he saw while he was in spirit. His spirit is his regenerated and Holy Spirit indwelt human spirit. ...[text shortened]... t mingled with the Holy Spirit. Otherwise we get no spiritual value out of reading the Bible.

YouTube

I believe this guy would concur.

Originally posted by kirksey957
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuNR-gy302g

I believe this guy would concur.

You never told us DrScribbles was on TV!


edit: No, wait. He actually does remind me of someone here. Not the doc though...

Originally posted by pawnhandler
You never told us DrScribbles was on TV!


edit: No, wait. He actually [b]does remind me of someone here. Not the doc though...[/b]

Now, I cannot imagine who that would be.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
What's the relationship? Some Christians have told me that Israel is a central figure in the End Times and there are prophecies involved. Can anyone point me to the parts of the Bible in question?

I have studied Revelation among other books of the Bible. Although it may seem as though it has no rhyme or reason to you I can assure you it, in fact, does.

To begin with the entire Bible was written by Jewish men and, as a result, its primary focus in terms of Biblical prophesy is Israel. Don't get me wrong, not all Christians would agree. Some would say that after Christ came the the Jewish people rejected their Messiah and God then forsook them and turned to the Gentiles as his primary focus. However, a careful study of Revelation and the culmination of Old Testament prophesy, mostly in Daniel, will reveal that most of Revelation is a reitoration of Old Testament prophesy. You could say that it is more of the same except that it goes into greater detail about certain prophesies. For example, Daniel talks of many "beasts". Conversely, Revelation talks of only one beast, however, it is the same last beast discussed in Daniel before the end comes. The prevous "beasts" in Daniel had no relevance when John wrote Revelation because those prophesies had already come to pass. Also, there is symbolism in Revelation. It is spelled out for you somewhat in Revelation chapter 17. For example, the waters described in Revelation in which the beast rises from represents many peoples and the nations of the earth. The ten horns of the beast represent kingdoms or powers upon the earth that have some sort of alliance etc, etc.

I know the unbeleiver scoffs at these prophesies, however, what is impressive to me is that Biblical prophesy has been written over thousands of years throughout history about the nation of Israel and the nation of Israel exists today!! What are the odds of that? I'm sure many would say it is the power of a self fulfilling prophesy, however, if I were to create a prophesy about any nation such as Russia, what are the odds of such a nation still existing thousands of years into the future? Especially if it had disappeared for a number of years before rising from the rubble.

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To begin with the entire Bible was written by Jewish men

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Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was a Gentile.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================

To begin with the entire Bible was written by Jewish men

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Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was a Gentile.[/b]

Ok, I will conceed him, however, I know of no one else, do you?

Originally posted by kirksey957
I'm the only one you need to listen to in regard to this. I'll tell it to you straight. Over time you will get different "prophecies" based on world events. During the cold war,it was always Russia, the great bear, that would decscend upon Israel. You will also hear about China and now you will probably hear about Iran. Hell, in time, even Hugo Chav ...[text shortened]... lives and this is the way to do it. Right now they should be praying for the stock market.

i wonder how high the terror alert is in isreal

Originally posted by whodey
I have studied Revelation among other books of the Bible. Although it may seem as though it has no rhyme or reason to you I can assure you it, in fact, does.

To begin with the entire Bible was written by Jewish men and, as a result, its primary focus in terms of Biblical prophesy is Israel. Don't get me wrong, not all Christians would agree. Some would ...[text shortened]... re? Especially if it had disappeared for a number of years before rising from the rubble.

If you'd made a prophecy about Russia before the end of the Cold War, you'd have found that it existed again after having vanished for a while.

Nations are in constant change, and people often go back and resurrect old place names.

Originally posted by kirksey957
I'm the only one you need to listen to in regard to this. I'll tell it to you straight. Over time you will get different "prophecies" based on world events. During the cold war,it was always Russia, the great bear, that would decscend upon Israel. You will also hear about China and now you will probably hear about Iran. Hell, in time, even Hugo Chav ...[text shortened]... lives and this is the way to do it. Right now they should be praying for the stock market.

Kirksey has it right. It's all speculation. And not necessarily harmless speculation. I remember listening once to Billye Brimm rejoice over the possibility that the Anti-Christ may already be alive in "Europe somewhere" waiting for his appointed time. Huh? Considering the mind-boggling evil which it is prophecied will be attributed to him, I don't think rejoicing is the proper reaction here. Folks get so hung up on this kind of dispensational bull crap that they lose touch with reality.

Ezekiel 38, according some people (according to Wikipedia), claims there must be peace in Israel before the Rapture will occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

Originally posted by whodey
Ok, I will conceed him, however, I know of no one else, do you?

I cannot think of any other entire books bearing the name of a non-Jew.

I thought your general post on Revelation was pretty good.