Originally posted by wolfgang59
So that is what you think? - you are wrong.

Definitions of words are not developed by any group.
They evolve through popular usage.

Unless you can show me a new definition of a word that has been "developed by Atheists to reinforce their position"!!!! 🙄

And if you cannot - what has led you to that absurd idea?

I think the definition of atheism has been attempted to be changed.

Regardless of these changes in definition which now argue that a newborn baby is an atheist, I think the matter remains very simple.

The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them - Does God Exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
If they say "No" they are an Atheist.

Simple.

If you ask a new born baby "Uhem, Excuse me. Does God exist?"
The baby may say "Goo goo, Gaa Gaa WAAAAAA!"

And I do not take that to be a "No" or a "Yes".
The question is 1000% meaningless to the mind of a baby.

Originally posted by sonship
The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them - [b]Does God Exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
If they say "No" they are an Atheist.

Simple.

If you ask a new born baby "Uhem, Excuse me. Does God exist?"
The baby may say "Goo goo, Gaa Gaa WAAAAAA!"

And I do not take that to be a "No" or a "Yes".
The question is 1000% meaningless to the mind of a baby.[/b]

Nicely stated. I think you've scored against my fellow atheists here. Arguing over whether babies are atheist or theist is idiotic.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Nicely stated. I think you've scored against my fellow atheists here. Arguing over whether babies are atheist or theist is idiotic.

I agree BDP, but hang on sonship, don't you guys believe babies are born with sin or something? Sounds like you want it both ways.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Nicely stated. I think you've scored against my fellow atheists here. Arguing over whether babies are atheist or theist is idiotic.

The point is that theist or atheist covers everyone.
And I think any reasonable person would say that a baby is not a theist

Originally posted by sonship

The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them -
[b]Does God Exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
If they say "No" they are an Atheist.

[/b]

The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them -
Do you believe a god or gods exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
Otherwise they are an atheist.

Very simple.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them -
[b]Do you believe a god or gods exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
Otherwise they are an atheist.

Very simple.[/b]

The problem is, certain theists get all worked up about certain words, so telling them their new born baby is an atheist, is like calling their child the devil. Its nearly as bad as saying he evolved.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The problem is, certain theists get all worked up about certain words, so telling them their new born baby is an atheist, is like calling their child the devil. Its nearly as bad as saying he evolved.

The fact that people don't like it, does not make it false.

As your evolution example aptly demonstrates.

Originally posted by sonship
I think the definition of atheism has been attempted to be changed.

And I think a surprising number of people do not know the definition of the word 'definition'.
One does not 'attempt' to change a definition. One just changes it. One is of course wise to let his interlocutor in on the definition change.
When I use the word 'atheist' I usually mean 'a person who lacks belief in God(s)'. If people misunderstand me, then I usually politely clarify. But you cannot tell me I am wrong to use it that way.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them -
[b]Do you believe a god or gods exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
Otherwise they are an atheist.

Very simple.[/b]

Stacking the deck a bit, isn't that?

No answer is not the same as answering "no".

Originally posted by Suzianne
Stacking the deck a bit, isn't that?

No answer is not the same as answering "no".

Its only stacking the deck if you believe words have magical properties. Hint: they don't. Choosing to label a new born baby 'atheist' or choosing not to do so, isn't going to change the baby in any way.
The main downside to the label atheist however it is used is that theists frequently think it confers properties on its subjects. In reality, even if you take 'atheist' to mean 'a person who strongly believes God doesn't exist', that really doesn't tell you anything else about that person, and doesn't warrant assuming that that person will be similar to another person who strongly believes God doesn't exist.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its only stacking the deck if you believe words have magical properties. Hint: they don't. Choosing to label a new born baby 'atheist' or choosing not to do so, isn't going to change the baby in any way.
The main downside to the label atheist however it is used is that theists frequently think it confers properties on its subjects. In reality, even if yo ...[text shortened]... ming that that person will be similar to another person who strongly believes God doesn't exist.

I think maybe you didn't mean to give me that diatribe, since I've never actually disagreed with what you just said.

I said "No answer is not the same as answering 'no'."

I don't see how any of what you said addresses that.

My post wasn't about labeling atheists. It was about labeling poll results.

By including "No Answer" as a "No" answer, he is, indeed, "stacking the deck", or skewing the results.

If you'd like to address that, then I'm all ears. But lambasting me for what some other people have said in this forum makes your reply a "non-sequitur".

Originally posted by OdBod
I agree BDP, but hang on sonship, don't you guys believe babies are born with sin or something? Sounds like you want it both ways.

Being born with the sin nature does not make one a Christian.
So I don't think that is a parallel or wanting it both ways.

The future Christian has a sin nature.
The future theist, deist, or pantheist has the sin nature.
The future athiest has a sin nature.
The future agnostic or future Buddhist or whatever was born with a sin nature.

The future adult, should he or she mature, was born with that sin nature. That's what we believe.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The point is that theist or atheist covers everyone.
And I think any reasonable person would say that a baby is not a theist

Such binary thinking is not helpful in this case. Yes, we could use the term atheist to describe an infant with no conception of god, but why would we want to do so? (Other than killing time debating theists and/or frustrating them with minutiae.)

IMO one must be aware of the concept of a god before one can be properly labelled 'atheist' or 'theist'. To me, the term 'atheist' implies more than a mere lack of belief in gods. It means that someone has considered the 'gods' question and lacks belief in them.

Originally posted by OdBod
I agree BDP, but hang on sonship, don't you guys believe babies are born with sin or something? Sounds like you want it both ways.

Why not start a thread on that?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The best way to determine if a human being is an Atheist or a Theist is to ask them -
[b]Do you believe a god or gods exist ?

If they say "Yes" they are a Theist.
Otherwise they are an atheist.

Very simple.[/b]

No.
If they say "That's personal" you don't know that they are an atheist.
If they say "That's none of your business" you don't know that they are an atheist.
If they say " Well, it DEPENDS on what we mean by 'God' or 'gods' " you don't know yet where they stand.

If they remain silent, not sure what to say, you don't know if they are an atheist.

If they LIE because for some reason they might be embarressed, or lose face, or lose an employment opportunity, or a romantic opportunity, or something else, you really do not KNOW if they are answering honestly. They could be a cowardly theist or cowardly athiest.


Now if this thread is about the stark COURAGE it takes to be an (trumpet fanfares - ta ta ta) Atheist then WHY are you trying to make it so EASY to be one?

The whole idea of this thread is that it takes GUTS. So stop working against the cause by making it so effortless rather than making it require courage and fortitude and gumption etc.