It seems to me...

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You would like to think so, but you do not know. Your entire family could be wiped out, God forbid, but even that you would not know....there is reference to this in the bible too.
I just saw a horrific movie. called Blood Diamond. It takes place in Africa, with unbelievable killing of men, women and children. And much of this killing is done by childr ...[text shortened]... d, I know I will see my children again, my wife and some of my friends. There is hope in God....

You're right, I live a pretty comfortable existence here in an affluent first-world society. My position may well be very different in the nightmare of a developing nation (which might explain the huge religiosity in such nations), but that is purely conjecture.
I don't live in such a place with such an existence.

True, my wife and children might die. My family and friends might die. Many things like that might occur.
I can't live my life against such mights - I can only work with what is. And I choose to live with the meaning that I live with.
The alternative for me would be to choose not to live, so in a sense I have no choice.

No, I would do every means to save myself. You make the assumption that there is no purpose in living a pointless life. Kinda weird, I know 🙂. It seems like I'm contradicting myself. I will see if I can make it clearer. Though I don't discount the possibility that I'm completely wrong and you are right.

Ed. Ok, maybe this is a bit better. Whether I have purpose or not, I exist. If I had to choose between life and death, I would choose life. Doesn't mean it has purpose or not. Now extend this to heaven. Whether I live for all eternity, it does not matter. It's pointless in that sense.

So, If I knew I could go to heaven with all certainty, I would go to heaven. Doesn't make it have purpose. That is why I said it was pointless.

Ed2. Ok, now I'm confusing myself 🙂. I'll think it over tonight.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
What you are saying is noble. But in the end all is vanity. What will happen to your cares, your love,your joy, all that you hold dear? When you cease to exist, what is the difference? Only the present may be enjoyed, and those memories will be gone as well. You should read Solomon. He had it all...but in the end he said all is vanity.

One of the problems I have with this argument (and it has been expressed often on here) is that this life then seems to be “vanity” anyway—except as a means to get to the next one.

I don’t always know what people mean by meaningless, or purposeless, or “vanity” in this regard. I mean that really: I don’t understand the perspective that says, “If I can’t live forever, then this life is meaningless.” I have to ask them to explain to me what the word meaning means to them. It sounds to me as if they are saying this life—their life, as they are living it—is valueless. I can understand why people in some circumstances conclude that, and it strikes me as tragic.

If this life is what there is, then it is incredibly precious. And when I see that it is precious to me, then I understand that it is precious to others as well—and that seems pretty much the basis for whatever moral theory I have, that simple recognition of another person in the human condition. Every day that I have to spend with my wife is precious, because I don’t assume that I have forever with her. It is when I begin to act as if I—and others—are going to live forever that I become careless in relationships. Maybe other people are different in that regard.

When I cease to exist, what is the difference? Perhaps none. But that does not mean there is no difference right now...

Originally posted by checkbaiter
What you are saying is noble. But in the end all is vanity. What will happen to your cares, your love,your joy, all that you hold dear? When you cease to exist, what is the difference? Only the present may be enjoyed, and those memories will be gone as well. You should read Solomon. He had it all...but in the end he said all is vanity.

And you think belief in a supernatural creator who gives a sod about us is anything other than vanity?!?

Yeah, I thought it over and you are right. I would want to live since I do find purpose in life. I suppose that heaven has great purpose since any sane person would want to be happy for all eternity. Whether this is possible is a different matter.