1. Joined
    27 Sep '06
    Moves
    9651
    25 Mar '07 20:02
    that the universe would be empty if there wasn't a creator.
    How can life be without a life giver?
    If in 500 million years we are extinct then there's nothing to remember us?
    My life is over when I die?
    Isn't life more than just matter?
    If there isn't a creator then nothing matters. We're as good as dead.
  2. Joined
    06 Jul '06
    Moves
    2926
    25 Mar '07 20:07
    Originally posted by josephw
    We're as good as dead.
    yep
  3. Joined
    19 Nov '03
    Moves
    31382
    25 Mar '07 20:12
    Originally posted by josephw
    How can life be without a life giver?

    In the words of Tommy Cooper; just like that...

    If in 500 million years we are extinct then there's nothing to remember us?

    Shame. Actually this gives me an idea for a thread.

    My life is over when I die?

    Yup, that's generally what death entails.

    Isn't life more than just matter?

    Nope

    If there isn't a creator then nothing matters. We're as good as dead.

    Just a matter of time.
  4. Joined
    09 Feb '07
    Moves
    1194
    25 Mar '07 20:18
    Originally posted by josephw
    that the universe would be empty if there wasn't a creator.
    How can life be without a life giver?
    If in 500 million years we are extinct then there's nothing to remember us?
    My life is over when I die?
    Isn't life more than just matter?
    If there isn't a creator then nothing matters. We're as good as dead.
    It seems to me that you have just explained your own inability to understand the universe.

    1) Why would the universe be empty? You have no reason to use that as proof of a creator.

    2) How can god be without a god-maker?

    3) Scary isn't it? So scary that you can't face it as a reality?

    4) See 3

    5) Is that even a question?

    6) Absolutely not true! What you do and how you affect other people's lives is something to treasure. I don't consider myself as good as dead, I want to enjoy this show!

    T
  5. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    25 Mar '07 20:43
    Originally posted by josephw
    that the universe would be empty if there wasn't a creator.
    How can life be without a life giver?
    If in 500 million years we are extinct then there's nothing to remember us?
    My life is over when I die?
    Isn't life more than just matter?
    If there isn't a creator then nothing matters. We're as good as dead.
    This is called the "anthropic principle". Basically, you are jumping to a conclusion which the data doesn't support.

    As for "how can life come about in the absence of a life giver?" Well, the current best hypothesis is abiogenesis.
  6. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    50086
    26 Mar '07 01:18
    Originally posted by josephw
    that the universe would be empty if there wasn't a creator.
    How can life be without a life giver?
    If in 500 million years we are extinct then there's nothing to remember us?
    My life is over when I die?
    Isn't life more than just matter?
    If there isn't a creator then nothing matters. We're as good as dead.
    I'll refer only to your last point - if there isn't a creator then nothing matters.
    How could you think that?
    Everything matters.

    I'm what some people here call a strong atheist. I deny the existence of any sort of supernatural creator.
    But my life matters to me, and the things around me matter.
    My wife and children matter. My friends and family matter. My work and the things I do matter.
    How could I exist if it were otherwise?
    I might as well kill myself now and be done with it.
    The fact that I don't and never will, is my own testament to the meaning of my life - meaning that I, in the absence of an external generated one, have had to develop for myself.
  7. Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    100919
    26 Mar '07 01:27
    Originally posted by amannion
    I'll refer only to your last point - if there isn't a creator then nothing matters.
    How could you think that?
    Everything matters.

    I'm what some people here call a strong atheist. I deny the existence of any sort of supernatural creator.
    But my life matters to me, and the things around me matter.
    My wife and children matter. My friends and family matt ...[text shortened]... meaning that I, in the absence of an external generated one, have had to develop for myself.
    What you are saying is noble. But in the end all is vanity. What will happen to your cares, your love,your joy, all that you hold dear? When you cease to exist, what is the difference? Only the present may be enjoyed, and those memories will be gone as well. You should read Solomon. He had it all...but in the end he said all is vanity.
  8. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    26 Mar '07 01:32
    Originally posted by amannion
    I'll refer only to your last point - if there isn't a creator then nothing matters.
    How could you think that?
    Everything matters.

    I'm what some people here call a strong atheist. I deny the existence of any sort of supernatural creator.
    But my life matters to me, and the things around me matter.
    My wife and children matter. My friends and family matt ...[text shortened]... meaning that I, in the absence of an external generated one, have had to develop for myself.
    But what if there is a God? Who gave you your loved ones and even your own life? Do you then take what he has given you and forsake him altogether? Of coarse this is the perspective of the believer, however, I do understand your own perspecitive. I would say that all other atheists share that perspective.
  9. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    50086
    26 Mar '07 01:34
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    What you are saying is noble. But in the end all is vanity. What will happen to your cares, your love,your joy, all that you hold dear? When you cease to exist, what is the difference? Only the present may be enjoyed, and those memories will be gone as well. You should read Solomon. He had it all...but in the end he said all is vanity.
    My personal stuff is gone, that's true. My thoughts and feelings and desires and everything else.
    But my family, my children, my friends, the people I have worked with and helped out over the years, they remain to remember me. And more that that, my children remain with their personalities and their views of the world having been shaped to some extent by my influence - which in turn goes on to affect their offspring and the people they touch in their lives.
    In this way, my influence is felt long after my death.

    I enjoy the present, but I also enjoy the past (through my reflection on it) and the future (through my anticipation of it.)
  10. Joined
    18 Feb '07
    Moves
    1345
    26 Mar '07 01:46
    I'm with amannion on this. This is how I feel. What is so wrong with enjoying the present? Yes, everything will be gone, cease to exist, some time later, but why should this matter? Even the universe will become nothing...

    Have you ever read any mythology? I'm not positive on this but I thought I read a story that said the Gods envy us. They live forever, but they cannot experience the emotions we feel. We know we are going to die, have a limited time on this earth, and it makes everything so special.

    You say it is all pointless, but isn't living forever pointless?
  11. Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    100919
    26 Mar '07 01:49
    Originally posted by amannion
    My personal stuff is gone, that's true. My thoughts and feelings and desires and everything else.
    But my family, my children, my friends, the people I have worked with and helped out over the years, they remain to remember me. And more that that, my children remain with their personalities and their views of the world having been shaped to some extent by m ...[text shortened]... so enjoy the past (through my reflection on it) and the future (through my anticipation of it.)
    You would like to think so, but you do not know. Your entire family could be wiped out, God forbid, but even that you would not know....there is reference to this in the bible too.
    I just saw a horrific movie. called Blood Diamond. It takes place in Africa, with unbelievable killing of men, women and children. And much of this killing is done by children! There is chaos everywhere. What would your line of thinking be there? I am not trying to be rude, I am just trying to understand where you are coming from, even though there is some nobility along with it. But with God, I know I will see my children again, my wife and some of my friends. There is hope in God....
  12. Joined
    06 Jul '06
    Moves
    2926
    26 Mar '07 01:53
    this one is easy. one day God went poof out of thin air, the air that did not exist yet. and he created air and everything else. 🙄
  13. Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
    Moves
    100919
    26 Mar '07 01:55
    Originally posted by Zander 88
    I'm with amannion on this. This is how I feel. What is so wrong with enjoying the present? Yes, everything will be gone, cease to exist, some time later, but why should this matter? Even the universe will become nothing...

    Have you ever read any mythology? I'm not positive on this but I thought I read a story that said the Gods envy us. They live foreve ...[text shortened]... es everything so special.

    You say it is all pointless, but isn't living forever pointless?
    No....God claims in the bible that it will take all eternity for Him to show us His love. (Ephesians)
    There are over 900 promises made to believers in the bible. Many of them we can enjoy now. The rest are for enjoyment throughout all eternity.
  14. Joined
    06 Jul '06
    Moves
    2926
    26 Mar '07 01:57
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    No....God claims in the bible that it will take all eternity for Him to show us His love. (Ephesians)
    There are over 900 promises made to believers in the bible. Many of them we can enjoy now. The rest are for enjoyment throughout all eternity.
    how long is an eternity? does it ever end?
  15. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    26 Mar '07 01:57
    Originally posted by Zander 88
    You say it is all pointless, but isn't living forever pointless?[/b]
    I will have to call you on this one. Suppose I held a gun to your head this very moment and said the same thing to you? Perhaps I would say that living another day is pointless? What would be the difference?
Back to Top