Originally posted by FMF
Countless times when I have told you that what you just told me to believe didn't make sense or seemed immoral to me,
Did I ?
I think I cannot tell you to believe.
I think you have argued something like -
"But I can't believe what I don't believe."
And I have decided that you are right.
Now the immoral part, I assume you mean about eternal perdition.
Now I have not shirked from saying that this is tought, hard, I don't like it myself at least sometimes, etc. I have never disagreed with anyone one objecting to eternal punishment that it is very very hard to imagine or feel good about. Horrendous is not a bad enough word to talk about punishment forever. Hardly any human language word is.
Haven't I said things like that ?
I have also said on more than two occasions, that NOW I my view of this will not be my view of it when I am transformed the image of Christ so completely that I see everything as through the eyes of God. Haven't I told you that ?
I expect that when God is finished so conforming the saved to the image of Christ they will see all things only as seen through the eyes of God. I do not NOW see all things as through the eyes of God. I take into account leniency toward sin because I do not see the total awfulness of sin. So when someone says they cannot imagine God's hatred for it to that degree, I can feel for them.
1.) The Ultimate Governor of all reality has something to learn from us about justice.
2.) We just do not realize the awfulness of rebellion against the Ultimate Governor
Of course one could conceivably argue - 'Well, God never said such things as eternal punishment. Bad people made it up."
This is not a viable option to me. I think the first two alternatives is what I have to deal with.
you have thrown your hands up and talked in a paranoid way about how I was trying to de-convert you or asking you to follow me instead of Jesus.
Maybe so. I am not above weak responses.
In this very difficult matter of God's retribution forever towards those who will not be forgiven, will not be reconciled to God, will not be justified through His gracious offer, and will not be saved is this -
"Look. The SAME Person who has uttered the most gracious, most loving, most merciful with understanding, most forbearing, most empathetic, most comforting words which have echoed down the centuries warming hearts and giving loving support to offenders of all kinds, ALSO
spoke the words of strongest warning about judgment.
In the midst of all His words and deeds which unquestionably supply solace to souls that God understands our needs, there are these words saying " I will tell you Who is the one you need to fear. You need to fear this One whose authority and power have no end to its reach. This is the One you need to fear."
I take His word at face value.
My only o
reaction to God is not dread of a ultimate Judge. But my reaction to God include also that factor. And I teach it too.
Holistically, doesn't it make sense that an Ultimate God is ultimate it varied aspects of His character ?
You are the one objecting the most "HOW in the world can eternal punishment be ultimate justice?"
You have a point.
But I think we do not realize Who it was bleeding, dying for us on that cross.