1. Standard membersonship
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    25 Dec '18 17:482 edits
    Some people like to boast that they understand the nature of God. If we speak about the three-oneness of God, they think you just MISSED IT.

    For two thousand YEARS smart minds have admitted that the nature of God is hard to explain. But certain types like Rajk999 and Divegeester come chiming along -

    Ie. "What's all the fuss? Why you just missed it. It is no mystery. It is very simple. You just look at these verses and BINGO ! All these people (not quite as smart as ME) missed it and came up with a funny trinity concept."

    I do not mind if someone thinks "Sonship, you call it a mystery or beyond our human comprehension because you are too swift upstairs. But ME ... you see I am so smart that there is not beyond comprehension for ME."

    I don't mind if that comment is made. Because I think the Bible itself is on the side of Christ being the mystery of God. The relationship of the Son and the Father and the Spirit is something that has no parallel in the natural universe.

    In this thread I will state some mysteries about God's nature. Anyone who wants to BRAG that they get it all, let them brag.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    25 Dec '18 17:58
    So, to some braggers God is So EASY to understand.

    Isaiah 9:6 talks about a human child born. And the name of the human born child will be "Mighty God" .

    The Mighty God is Jehovah. And He is also the All Mighty God in spite of what the Jehovahs Witnesses tell you.

    Jehovah God - the Mighty God was a little child inside the womb of a pregnant woman. Who held together the universe while the "Mighty God" was tied with an umbilical cord to His mother's body ?

    Easy to understand, Right ? NOT.

    Then the same prophecy Isaiah 9:6 speaks of a Son given who is the "eternal Father"{/b].

    Huh? The Son is the Father? The Father is the Son ?? Easy to understand right ?

    Oh, some say "Well ... He is CALLED eternal Father. But He is not REALLY the Father."

    Okay, continuing that line of reasoning He is called [b]"Prince of Peace"
    BUT ... He is not REALLY the Prince of Peace?

    NO, He is CALLED "Prince of Peace because that is what He is.
    And He is CALLED "eternal Father" because that is WHO He is.

    A slam dunk for human logic. Right ?
  3. Standard membersonship
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    25 Dec '18 18:02
    Wait ! Then you will say to me -

    " But the Father did not die on the cross did He ?
    The Son died on the cross. "

    I answer : "YEs that seems right to me. I cannot see a verse exactly saying that the Father died on the cross at Calvary."

    You say "But sonship you said the Son given will be called the eternal Father. So if the Son was crucified the Father died by crucifixion. "

    I reply - "The Bible doesn't say that. But it DOES say that the Son will be called the eternal Father."

    You may say "Explain that. I don't understand".

    Neither do I understand. But I believe what the Bible has told us.
    I am willing to bare the weight of not being ABLE to fully explain.

    The Son is the Father.
    The Son died but not the Father.

    Amen.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    25 Dec '18 18:191 edit
    "Oh how convenient that you say it is beyond our comprehension. Smart guy like me has it ALL FIGURED OUT. "

    This is the attitude of some. As if the brothers and sisters over the last 20 centuries had perplexing discussions all for nothing. Had you been there, why you would have just shown them the Shema - The Lord our God is ONE.

    Well, the Lord our God is One said "Let Us" . Now it was not dropped into the Hebrew Scripture by a council at Nicea. Moses wrote it under inspiration in Genesis. And the prophet Isaiah wrote of God saying "Who will go for Us."

    Christians - FEEL the weight of faith. Feel the ridicule that the world will heap upon us because be BELIEVE such a perplexing matter.

    We still can know God, commune with God, fellowship with God, have God come into us.

    But He is mysterious - I and We yet ONE God.

    "How convenient that you say you cannot explain it. But ME BOY! I can explain it ALL! It has always been SO simple. Move over Christians at the church councils."

    Some of us will have to just be willing to appear foolish.
    Know that the crucified Jesus for much of the same thing.

    "God is Your Father? You are the Son of God?"

    Not me, but the Apostle Paul spoke of "Christ, the mystery of God".

    Now someone dazzle me with your human reasoning. Explain how the " Word was with God and the Word WAS God. " (John 1:1)

    Dazzle us with how smart you are.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    25 Dec '18 18:311 edit
    " ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)


    BUT WAIT A MINUTE !!

    The Holy Spirit is eternal right?

    Well, the term "Holy Spirit" begins to be used in the New Testament. But SURELY the Spirit of God was brooding over the waters in Genesis chapter one. The Spirit was there and God IS Spirit according to John 4.

    But "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15;45) .

    The last Adam is nobody except Jesus Christ.
    The life giving Spirit is nobody except the Holy Spirit.

    The Second of the Triune God became the Third of the Triune God and both are eternal. How can this possibly be ?

    It is not easy to understand. God put on human nature. God went back to the throne wearing the human nature.

    The Spirit of God had only divinity before the resurrection of Christ.
    After the resurrection of Christ the Spirit of God contained the humanity of the man Jesus.

    He went BACK wearing that which with He was incarnated. The last Adam Christ became a life giving Holy Spirit. Whether we like it or not Christ became the Holy Spirit.

    I don't think it is easy to explain or understand because I don't think it is possible to systematize the Bible 100%.

    Did the last Adam become a life giving Spirit or not, Christian ?
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
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    25 Dec '18 18:53
    Of course according to sonship many of these truths “transend our ability to figure it out”. Which is convenient.
  7. Standard memberSecondSon
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    25 Dec '18 19:28
    @divegeester said
    Of course according to sonship many of these truths “transend our ability to figure it out”. Which is convenient.
    God is eternal. Can your finite mind "figure it out" with complete understanding?

    The human mind and spirit was created to know God. We have a capacity to know God, to understand His nature and character, but, BUT, it is limited to a finite degree. Especially since the fall and subsequent separation from God's Holy presence.

    Now we're playing catch-up, and only to the degree that our minds are washed by God's Word will we know Him. And will continue to learn of God for all eternity.

    We will always be finite, and God will always be infinite.

    Divegeester, sonship is spot on. A little difficult to follow at times, but doctrinally sound. Throws me here and there every now and then, but eventually we will all arrive at the same destination.
  8. Standard memberSecondSon
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    25 Dec '18 19:35
    @sonship said
    " ... the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)


    BUT WAIT A MINUTE !!

    The Holy Spirit is eternal right?

    Well, the term "Holy Spirit" begins to be used in the New Testament. But SURELY the Spirit of God was brooding over the waters in Genesis chapter one. The Spirit was there and God IS Spirit according to ...[text shortened]... systematize the Bible 100%.

    Did the last Adam become a life giving Spirit or not, Christian ?
    It's a beautiful plan God has for us isn't it sonship?

    Matthew 25:34
    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
  9. Subscriberdivegeester
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    25 Dec '18 20:47
    @secondson said
    God is eternal. Can your finite mind "figure it out" with complete understanding?

    The human mind and spirit was created to know God. We have a capacity to know God, to understand His nature and character, but, BUT, it is limited to a finite degree. Especially since the fall and subsequent separation from God's Holy presence.

    Now we're playing catch-up, and only to the ...[text shortened]... ows me here and there every now and then, but eventually we will all arrive at the same destination.
    I’m aware that you like sonship and you both subscribe to pretty much the same churchy dogmas.
  10. Standard memberSecondSon
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    25 Dec '18 21:01
    @divegeester said
    I’m aware that you like sonship and you both subscribe to pretty much the same churchy dogmas.
    It's called Bible doctrine divegeester.

    You're doing the same thing you do with the bs "torturer god ideology". No one subscribes to it, and no one subscribes to your bs "churchy dogma" rhetoric either.

    It's just troll bile. A way to deflect from the topic and avoid rational discussion. Simply because you're full of bitter resentment.
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    25 Dec '18 21:273 edits
    @sonship said
    So, to some braggers God is So EASY to understand.

    Isaiah 9:6 talks about a human child born. And the name of the human born child will be "Mighty God" .

    The Mighty God is Jehovah. And He is also the All Mighty God in spite of what the Jehovahs Witnesses tell you.

    Jehovah God - the Mighty God was a little child inside the womb of a pregnant woman. W ...[text shortened]... LLED "eternal Father" because that is WHO He is.

    A slam dunk for human logic. Right ?
    Setting aside the fact that it's a reach to apply Isaiah 9:6 to Jesus and the fact that names in general and Hebrew names in particular often have meanings that aren't necessarily to be taken literally, hopefully the following will clear things up for you:

    Isaiah 9
    JPS Tanakh 1917

    5For a child is born unto us,
    A son is given unto us;
    And the government is upon his shoulder;
    And his name is called
    a Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;

    Footnotes:
    {fn: a} That is, Wonderful in counsel is God, the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of peace.
  12. Subscriberdivegeester
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    25 Dec '18 21:36
    @secondson said
    It's called Bible doctrine divegeester.

    You're doing the same thing you do with the bs "torturer god ideology". No one subscribes to it, and no one subscribes to your bs "churchy dogma" rhetoric either.

    It's just troll bile. A way to deflect from the topic and avoid rational discussion. Simply because you're full of bitter resentment.
    I’m aware that you and sonship share the same interpretation of various biblical scriptures which support your beliefs.
  13. Standard memberSecondSon
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    25 Dec '18 22:06
    @divegeester said
    I’m aware that you and sonship share the same interpretation of various biblical scriptures which support your beliefs.
    But are you aware you haven't the aptitude to discuss them?

    I mean, at least it doesn't appear so. You haven't yet.
  14. Subscriberdivegeester
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    25 Dec '18 22:07
    @secondson said
    But are you aware you haven't the aptitude to discuss them?

    I mean, at least it doesn't appear so. You haven't yet.
    You’re boring Joseph.

    Go play another game of chess against yourself.
  15. Standard memberSecondSon
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    25 Dec '18 23:19
    @divegeester said
    You’re boring Joseph.

    Go play another game of chess against yourself.
    Wow! You do have a sense of humor. I was just thinking about how boring it's getting debating you.

    And that line - "Go play another game of chess against yourself", is classic.

    There may just still be some hope for you BillyBob. 🌞
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