1. Joined
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    12 Dec '10 22:271 edit
    YouTube

    If you will take the time to view this video you will clearly see that Randi has done a good job of debunking the current site of Nazareth as bogus.

    While Randi does a good job of debunking frauds and charlatans he then uses the same fraudulent techniques to reach a fraudulent conclusion concerning Nazareth.

    At the end of his spiel Randi claims, or infers, that because the site of the place called Nazareth cannot be what it is said to be, that Nazareth never existed and therefore the whole Bible is wrong.

    Randi hasn't proved that Nazareth never existed. Nazareth obviously was located somewhere else.

    What a hypocrite. I should claim the million dollars offered by Randi's foundation. 😲
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    12 Dec '10 22:39
    Originally posted by josephw
    What a hypocrite. I should claim the million dollars offered by Randi's foundation. 😲
    Please do. It is very cheap money if you meet the stipulation. Many have tried, none have succeeded. Yet. A remarkable person he is.
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    12 Dec '10 23:33
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Please do. It is very cheap money if you meet the stipulation. Many have tried, none have succeeded. Yet. A remarkable person he is.
    He is remarkable.

    Here is a very interesting statement in the FAQ, Rules and Guidelines section of his web site.

    (12) Are countries other than the USA also plagued by incredible beliefs and claims of quackery, pseudoscience, and magic?

    "Oh, yes. It's difficult to determine or define a "silliness factor" for any culture, but we can say that all parts of the Earth are currently getting deeper and deeper into such nonsense. Though the "flavors," languages, and costumes of the beliefs may vary, they are all there in full bloom. In one place, medieval medical notions may be in full effect, while in another location the populace is enamored — at the moment — with summoning up spirits. And, it's not getting any better. Quite the contrary".


    Could it be that there is a being with the ultimate powers of deception at large? 😲
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    13 Dec '10 07:34
    Originally posted by josephw
    He is remarkable.

    Could it be that there is a being with the ultimate powers of deception at large? 😲
    I too find him remarkable.
    And it is his site. He can write whatever he wants to. I find him quite humble because he is not against religion, he is against people who says they have supernatural abilities. Bending spoons, levitating, psychokinetic abilities, future-telling, etc.
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    13 Dec '10 11:51
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I too find him remarkable.
    And it is his site. He can write whatever he wants to. I find him quite humble because he is not against religion, he is against people who says they have supernatural abilities. Bending spoons, levitating, psychokinetic abilities, future-telling, etc.
    Yes, and I agree that Randi is doing the world a service by exposing fraud. Especially in the religious arena.

    But Randi is no friend of religion. I don't know if you viewed the video, but it appears he thinks the Bible is a fraud. I can live with that. It's his choice to believe whatever he wants, but in the video he clearly errors in his conclusion. His bias caused him not to see how the evidence he provided fails to support his conclusion.
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    13 Dec '10 12:05
    Originally posted by josephw
    Yes, and I agree that Randi is doing the world a service by exposing fraud. Especially in the religious arena.

    But Randi is no friend of religion. I don't know if you viewed the video, but it appears he thinks the Bible is a fraud. I can live with that. It's his choice to believe whatever he wants, but in the video he clearly errors in his conclusion. His bias caused him not to see how the evidence he provided fails to support his conclusion.
    Therefore you shouldn't have a problem approaching Randi and explaining why he is wrong. You might get that million dollars.
  7. Joined
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    13 Dec '10 13:01
    Originally posted by josephw
    Yes, and I agree that Randi is doing the world a service by exposing fraud. Especially in the religious arena.

    But Randi is no friend of religion. I don't know if you viewed the video, but it appears he thinks the Bible is a fraud. I can live with that. It's his choice to believe whatever he wants, but in the video he clearly errors in his conclusion. His bias caused him not to see how the evidence he provided fails to support his conclusion.
    I have problems with my sound-card in my computer. So for me youtube is like a silent but moving picture.

    Can you please enlighten me of what his anti-bible conclusions are?
  8. Joined
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    13 Dec '10 13:28
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I have problems with my sound-card in my computer. So for me youtube is like a silent but moving picture.

    Can you please enlighten me of what his anti-bible conclusions are?
    Ok. Randi offers proof that the town of Nazareth never existed at the site where it is said to have been. His evidence is irrefutable. But the site is venerated and therefore there is controversy over Randi's findings. Folks are up in arms about it.

    There are so-called-Christians who are heavily invested in the site as a tourist attraction. It bites into there bottom line. They are, in my opinion, a bunch of silly fools trying to make a buck off something like the town where Jesus grew up.

    The problem I have with Randi isn't that he's right about the real estate, but that he draws the conclusion that because that particular site isn't Nazareth, then there was no Nazareth, so therefore the whole Bible is thrown into question.

    Randi fails to say that perhaps Nazareth was located elsewhere, but instead suggest that the record is a myth and so is the whole Bible.

    It is disingenuous and misleading. Randi effectively does exactly what the others he has exposed do.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    13 Dec '10 13:301 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I have problems with my sound-card in my computer. So for me youtube is like a silent but moving picture.

    Can you please enlighten me of what his anti-bible conclusions are?
    As one who lived in Jerusalem for almost 4 years and visited all the usual JC sites, I can say without a doubt he has valid points about Nazareth, one being it is pretty flat ground, and in St Lukes, he specifically mentions Jesus going to a synagogue there and being cast out onto a hill.

    Archeologists have been digging there for a long time and there are no synagogues on the site at all, and all coins found in digs there date to way past the time of Jesus. They also found tombs under the houses there, and Jews will not live on top of a tomb. That is a fact.

    Randi is also pointing out that a large christian collective has gathered 60 million bucks to build a Nazareth version of disneyland, with actors playing out the various jesus stories for adoring tourists.

    Since nothing has been found on the modern day Nazareth site that dates back to the beginning of the common era, the money dudes pushing for the Nazareth villageland site, he predicts there will magically be found archeologic evidence dating back to 30 ce or so, which will 'prove' the authenticity of the claims, therefore being able to wow the many thousands of tourists who will spend their hard earned money on a bogus site, and oh, btw, making millions for the consortium building the place.

    He got his inspiration for this bogus Nazareth site from a book by a guy named Rene *Somg*, I am not sure of the spelling of the last name, Randi did not enunciate the name well enough for me at least, to derive a valid spelling.

    So JosephW, why don't you mount a rebuttal point by point instead of rejecting his claims out of hand? Show us the coins minted in the year 20 CE or something. Show us the hill in Nazareth, show us the synagogue supposedly there.

    Remember, I lived there, even attended a christmas celebration in the Nazareth Lutheran church, the memory of which causes me to cringe to this day, no need for me to write about it unless you ask.

    BTW, why isn't Naz mentioned in the Old Testament? Find me one word of it there.
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    13 Dec '10 13:35
    Originally posted by lausey
    Therefore you shouldn't have a problem approaching Randi and explaining why he is wrong. You might get that million dollars.
    No. I read his whole site. The rules are clearly laid out. One must demonstrate a paranormal ability under strict test rules. It is all very legitimate.

    I already knew what Randi only confirmed. No one has the ability to do the things they say they can do when it comes to all that paranormal stuff. Randi effectively exposes the frauds.
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    13 Dec '10 13:36
    Originally posted by josephw
    Ok. Randi offers proof that the town of Nazareth never existed at the site where it is said to have been. His evidence is irrefutable. But the site is venerated and therefore there is controversy over Randi's findings. Folks are up in arms about it.

    There are so-called-Christians who are heavily invested in the site as a tourist attraction. It bites into ...[text shortened]... singenuous and misleading. Randi effectively does exactly what the others he has exposed do.
    If this is what Randi says, he makes a big hen out of a feather. The conclusion that the bible is wrong in its entirety because archeologists haven't found Nazareth is wrong.

    But Randi is doing a great job exposing the 'false prophets' and charlatans, they who make big bucks out of some trickeries. If there are things beyond science, then the million dollars are easily earned. Noone has showed any extra-scientific phenomena yet. The million is intact. I don't think there are any such things, at all.
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    13 Dec '10 13:41
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    As one who lived in Jerusalem for almost 4 years and visited all the usual JC sites, I can say without a doubt he has valid points about Nazareth, one being it is pretty flat ground, and in St Lukes, he specifically mentions Jesus going to a synagogue there and being cast out onto a hill.

    Archeologists have been digging there for a long time and there a ...[text shortened]... you ask.

    BTW, why isn't Naz mentioned in the Old Testament? Find me one word of it there.
    A lot of things aren't mentioned in the OT.

    You may have misunderstood me. I don't refute anything Randi had to say about Nazareth. I could care less about religious site of any kind real or imagined.

    I think I explained myself in the post above well enough.

    Please don't tell me about that Lutheran church thing. It must have been painful I'm sure. 😉
  13. Joined
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    13 Dec '10 13:46
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    If this is what Randi says, he makes a big hen out of a feather. The conclusion that the bible is wrong in its entirety because archeologists haven't found Nazareth is wrong.

    But Randi is doing a great job exposing the 'false prophets' and charlatans, they who make big bucks out of some trickeries. If there are things beyond science, then the million d ...[text shortened]... tific phenomena yet. The million is intact. I don't think there are any such things, at all.
    I'm with ya fabian.

    But you'll have to realize that Randi is a media celebrity. What he is doing is a good thing, but we in the church have been doing the same thing for forever, but you won't hear about it on TV.

    There's way too much information going around in the world today for anyone to keep up with the cutting edge even if they think they can.

    I wonder why I said that?
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    13 Dec '10 15:12
    Originally posted by josephw
    A lot of things aren't mentioned in the OT.

    You may have misunderstood me. I don't refute anything Randi had to say about Nazareth. I could care less about religious site of any kind real or imagined.

    I think I explained myself in the post above well enough.

    Please don't tell me about that Lutheran church thing. It must have been painful I'm sure. 😉
    Why do you call Randi a hypocrite on the one hand and on the other you say you don't refute anything he has to say? Sounds a bit wishy washy to me. I gather what your gripe is that Randi says the whole bible is bogus.
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    13 Dec '10 15:14
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why do you call Randi a hypocrite on the one hand and on the other you say you don't refute anything he has to say? Sounds a bit wishy washy to me. I gather what your gripe is that Randi says the whole bible is bogus.
    Maybe hypocrite was a bit strong.

    But still he did reach a conclusion that was disingenuous and false.
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