- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Christians therefore who claim to have the Holy Spirit and/or proclaim that Jesus is flowing through them, are sadly mistaken if also with the same mouth they condemn the keeping of the commandments of Christ and derogatorily refer to it as works salvation and legalistic Pharisaical doctrine.
Jesus taught this matter of the Spirit flowing in the believer.
The Apostle Paul said that Christians initially receive the Spirit by faith and not by works of the law. The rhetorical question is in Galatians 3:21
"O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly portrayed crucified?
This only I wish to learn from you, Did you receive the Spirit out of the works of law or out of the hearing of faith?"
We genuine believers in Christ RECEIVED the Holy Spirit by faith upon HEARING of faith concerning the Gospel.
Check your King James.
Galatians 3:2, KJV: "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"
I received the flowing Spirit by "the hearing of faith".
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
@sonship saidAs I pointed out earlier bible doesn’t use the phrase “Jesus flowing through you”.
@Rajk999
Christians therefore who claim to have the Holy Spirit and/or proclaim that Jesus is flowing through them, are sadly mistaken if also with the same mouth they condemn the keeping of the commandments of Christ and derogatorily refer to it as works salvation and legalistic Pharisaical doctrine.
Jesus as the Spirit flowing in man is the teaching ...[text shortened]... as confirming what Scripture had said. That was of course the Scriptures that they had at that time.
Stick to what’s written, not what you want to be there.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Thanks for making my point clearer. Jesus and the Apostles went to great lengths to identify two types of Christians
The Christians who received the Holy Spirit did so by the hearing of faith and not out of works of the law.
"This only I wish to learn from you, Did you receive the Spirit out of the works of law or out of the hearing of faith?
Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:2,3)
1. The Wise - those professing LIVING FAITH, the keepers of commandments, the righteous, the genuinely faithful, the Good Samaritans, the obedient, the ones who will enter the Kingdom of God.
This is another matter. None of this nullifies the truth that the Christians received the experience of the living water of the Spirit flowing out of their innermost being when they responded to the Gospel with the hearing of faith.
" . . . Did you receive the Spirit out of the works of the law or by the hearing of faith?"
The answer to Paul's rhetorical question is - "We Christians received the Holy Spirit out of the hearing of faith."
2. The Foolish - those professing to believe with their mouith ie DEAD FAITH, the ones who disobey commandments, the unrighteous, the mouthworshippers, the Levites and Priests, the disobedient, the ones who will be cast out of the Kingdom of God.
There are indeed wise and foolish believers. And the Lord's coming will expose what the situation is. However, we received the Spirit by the hearing of faith.
And the Spirit deepens His work by the continued walking in faith which is of course a walk in obedience to the Spirit.
Having received initially by obeying to believe we continue enjoying the Spirit the same way.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
"Are you so foolish? Having BEGUN by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
You see, FOOLISH would be to not continue to receive the Spirit into the SOUL.
Wise would be to continued to pay the price to receive the Spirits influence over the SOUL.
Colossians 2:6 teaches that as the Christians initially received Christ they should continue to WALK so in Him.
King James Bible
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
New King James Version
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
New American Standard Bible
Therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Everybody knows which type you are.
I received the Spirit by the hearing of faith.
I endeavor to walk in Christ as I received Him.
It will one day be manifested whether Christ deemed by Christians life as wise or foolish. By I received the Spirit not out of works of the law but out of the hearing of faith. And I continue not in the flesh (when I am wise) but by the Spirit. As I received Christ the Lord I seek to continue to WALK in Him.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
As I pointed out earlier bible doesn’t use the phrase “Jesus flowing through you”.
Stick to what’s written, not what you want to be there.
Jesus said "as the Scripture has said".
That establishes that the Scripture that they had spoke of the living water flowing through man.
The New Testament Scripture says "Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17)
That confirms that the Spirit flowing in John 7:37-39 is Jesus Christ the Lord. After all the New Testament also said He BECAME a life giving Spirit.
"[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit". That's in 1 Cor. 15:45
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Before John wrote his Gospel we were already given a heads up by the prophet Isaiah about the living water. Isaiah prophesied that a King, a man would be unusually supportive and refreshing, even like streams of water in a dry place.
"Indeed a King will reign according to righteousness . . . and a man will be like a refuge from the wind and a covering from the tempest, LIKE STREAMS OF WATER in a dry place . . ." (See Isaiah 32:1-2)
Jesus very well may have been referring to THIS Scripture. He said whoever is THRISTY should come to Him and drink.
I say "streams of water in a dry place" in the Old Testament is "out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water" in the Gospel of John.
We can come to Jesus Christ with out thirsty spiritual being and drink of Him.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
@sonship saidIt doesn’t say “Jesus flowing through man”.
@divegeesterStick to what’s written, not what you want to be there.
Jesus said "as the Scripture has said".
That establishes that the Scripture that they had spoke of the living water flowing through man.
As I said try to stick to what’s actually written.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
It doesn’t say “Jesus flowing through man”.
As I said try to stick to what’s actually written.
We do stick to what is written. It may not be written all in one place.
You on the other hand want to cut up and separate the whole truth.
What you don't believe you want to it is cut out and cut off and separated from the entire revelation of the Bible.
Now we do in one place have "Christ lives in me"
"It is not longer I that live but Christ Who lives in me. . . " (see Gal. 2:20)
That could well amount to Jesus flowing in someone.
We also have "Christ who is speaking in me" in 2 Cor. 13:3
"Since you seek proof of the Christ who is speaking in me, who is not weak unto you but is powerful in you."
That too amounts to Jesus flowing in someone. Notice that he does not imply Jesus flows in him ONLY. But that same Jesus is also as effective IN the ones whom he speaks to, the problematic Corinthians.
" . . . Christ who is speaking in me, who is not weak unto you but is powerful in you."
I love Paul's experience. He doesn't miss a beat.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Stick to what’s written, not what you want to be there.
You must mean things like -
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)
When I stick sadly to what is written there you don't like that sticking.
When I stick to "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom" (2 Cor. 3:17) and when I stick to "But this He said concerning the Spirit which they who received Him were about to receive . . ." (John 7:39) you don't like that sticking either.
Why don't you like me sticking to those passages in 2 Cor. 3:17 and John 7:39?
Together they amount to Jesus the Spirit able to flow through men as living water.
Do you like me sticking to the passage that tells us "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) ?
@sonship saidYou keep preaching your dead faith doctrine. In your doctrine there is no Jesus flowing through you at all. You are stuck at the point where you have professed your faith, that that is the end of it for you.
"Are you so foolish? Having BEGUN by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
You see, FOOLISH would be to not continue to receive the Spirit into the SOUL.
Wise would be to continued to pay the price to receive the Spirits influence over the SOUL.
Colossians 2:6 teaches that as the Christians initially received Christ they should continue ...[text shortened]... (when I am wise) but by the Spirit. As I received Christ the Lord I seek to continue to WALK in Him.
What is supposed to come after hearing and receiving the Holy Spirit in your case is nothing. Nothing but more talk. DOERS are justified, not hearers and talkiers.
Any Christian that continues to preach on and on about being saved by grace through faith [you, second son, RB Hill and several others], and have not progressed on to preaching about good works and righteousness which is the proof that Jesus is flowing through them, is dead. If Jesus was flowing through you your preaching would be along the lines of what Jesus preached. Your faith is dead.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
You keep preaching your dead faith doctrine. In your doctrine there is no Jesus flowing through you at all. You are stuck at the point where you have professed your faith, that that is the end of it for you.
I can't believe you.
The pages and pages and pages AND pages I have written on this Forum usually take coming to Christ as the STARTING point of the Christian journey.
That is what the community usually pushes back on.
Do you run on some canned standard replies ?
What is supposed to come after hearing and receiving the Holy Spirit in your case is nothing. Nothing but more talk. DOERS are justified, not hearers and talkiers.
In this very discussion I wrote As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him quoting Paul.
As you received by faith SO CONTINUE TO WALK in the same manner.
You need some experience of both I think.
Any Christian that continues to preach on and on about being saved by grace through faith [you, second son, RB Hill and several others], and have not progressed on to preaching about good works and righteousness which is the proof that Jesus is flowing through them, is dead. If Jesus was flowing through you your preaching would be along the lines of what Jesus preached. Your faith is dead.
Now, I'm not happy to hear that .
You trying to make a guy brittle and prickly ??
@sonship saidYou produce pages and pages of professing faith and mouth worship. You ignore the teachings of Christ and the Apostles pertaining to good works and righteousness. In fact you condemn these teachings
@Rajk999You keep preaching your dead faith doctrine. In your doctrine there is no Jesus flowing through you at all. You are stuck at the point where you have professed your faith, that that is the end of it for you.
I can't believe you.
The pages and pages and pages AND pages I have written on this Forum usually take coming to Christ as the STARTING ...[text shortened]... e]
Now, I'm not happy to hear that .
You trying to make a guy brittle and prickly ??
In the last 14 years you must have started over 200 threads on faith and professions of faith with the mouth and other forms of mouthworship. You have said nothing about good works and righteousness
Clearly your profession of faith was not genuine, has not has not produced fruit and is dead.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Where else can we find something about Jesus flowing in people ?
This verse is very close. Paul says the rock from which the children of Israel drank from was a "spiritual drink". And the "spiritual drink" in symbolism came from the rock in symbolism which WAS CHRIST !
Right here.
"And all ate the same spiritual food,
And all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ." (1 Cor. 10:3,4)
The allegory is that the Israelites quenched their thirst by drinking water from a rock. That rock was Christ.
Ie. It was a symbol of coming to Jesus thirsty and drinking from Him.
The drinking of the spiritual drink pointed to drinking the Holy Spirit.
And the spiritual drink poured forth from the rock that pointed to Christ.
In symbolism in actual history - they drink from Christ. And they drank of the Spirit of God.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
We have to come to Christ, the smitten Rock, if we want to have our being flowing with the Spirit of God.
In the final sign of the whole Bible we see a throne with the Lamb (the Redeeming God-man) sitting upon it. It is "the throne of God and of the Lamb". That is ONE throne - THE throne of God and the redeeming Lamb. He is the Redeemer, the God-man who died and rose. God is in Him.
God as the Spirit is flowing from Him, from His throne.
He is reigning and governing by flowing through people.
What pours forth from that throne in eternity? The river of the water of life, clear as crystal flowing through the whole city of God.
"And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb" (Rev. 22:1)
This shows the Triune God - the Father, the Son, and the Spirit flowing through the "city" as eternal life. Bright, clean, clear as crystal, righteous, holy, wonderful and glorious. watering the entire city of the New Jerusalem.
This is the eternal consummation of Jesus flowing through people.