1. Standard memberapathist
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    17 Aug '13 22:58
    1) What of those people who died before Jesus existed. They clearly did not have a chance to Believe. What happened to their souls?

    2) I've heard that dead babies get to go to Heaven. So should not a loving parent kill their child, BEFORE the child's intellect can raise doubts about the Truth of Jesus and subsequently doom that child to Hell?

    3)
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    18 Aug '13 03:351 edit
    Originally posted by apathist
    1) What of those people who died before Jesus existed. They clearly did not have a chance to Believe. What happened to their souls?

    2) I've heard that dead babies get to go to Heaven. So should not a loving parent kill their child, BEFORE the child's intellect can raise doubts about the Truth of Jesus and subsequently doom that child to Hell?

    3)
    Those two questions are not directly answered. However, theologians have presented information that may help answer those questions. Below are two links that attempt to do that:

    Those believers who lived before Jesus understood grace and they placed their faith in a coming Redeemer…

    http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/how-were-people-saved-before-christ/

    We all recognize that a young infant is incapable of believing. A baby is not able to understand the gospel, nor does he have any idea of who Jesus Christ is or what Jesus Christ has done. Not only are infants incapable of believing the gospel, but they are also incapable of rejecting Jesus Christ. And remember, people are condemned for their rejection of Jesus Christ: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).

    http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/infantsa.htm

    We must not forget that the Holy Bible indicates that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ before the new heavens and the new earth. Why is that needed? Perhaps for the aborted unborn babies?

    The Instructor
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    18 Aug '13 09:13
    Originally posted by apathist
    1) What of those people who died before Jesus existed. They clearly did not have a chance to Believe. What happened to their souls?

    2) I've heard that dead babies get to go to Heaven. So should not a loving parent kill their child, BEFORE the child's intellect can raise doubts about the Truth of Jesus and subsequently doom that child to Hell?

    3)
    1) "What of those people who died before Jesus existed."

    Jesus has always existed. Revelation 22:13

    "They clearly did not have a chance to Believe. What happened to their souls?"

    What they did or didn't believe you'll never know, will you? You needn't worry about anyone's soul other than your own. God's judgements are righteous, so don't worry that He'll make any mistakes. Everyone is going to get just what they deserve. Comforting is it not?

    2) "I've heard that dead babies get to go to Heaven."

    There aren't any dead babies in heaven. In fact, there isn't anything dead in heaven.

    "So should not a loving parent kill their child, BEFORE the child's intellect can raise doubts about the Truth of Jesus and subsequently doom that child to Hell?"

    Are you suggesting your parents should have killed you before you grew up?

    3)
  4. Standard memberapathist
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    28 Aug '13 01:171 edit
    Originally posted by josephw...
    There aren't any dead babies in heaven. In fact, there isn't anything dead in heaven.
    ...
    As you know, I meant to ask what happens to the souls or spirits of people who die while still infant, ie when they had no chance to decide to Believe that Jesus is Savior, which Christianity claims is how one gets to Heaven.

    Your other replies were equally goofy.
  5. Standard memberapathist
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    28 Aug '13 01:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Those two questions are not directly answered. However, theologians have presented information that may help answer those questions. Below are two links that attempt to do that:

    Those believers who lived before Jesus understood grace and they placed their faith in a coming Redeemer…

    http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/how-were-people-saved-before-christ ...[text shortened]... the new earth. Why is that needed? Perhaps for the aborted unborn babies?

    The Instructor
    So in your view dead babies do not get redemption and Heaven, but instead are condemned - luckily, though, God's threat of eternal Hell lasts about one thousand years.
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    28 Aug '13 01:392 edits
    Originally posted by apathist
    1) What of those people who died before Jesus existed. They clearly did not have a chance to Believe. What happened to their souls?

    2) I've heard that dead babies get to go to Heaven. So should not a loving parent kill their child, BEFORE the child's intellect can raise doubts about the Truth of Jesus and subsequently doom that child to Hell?

    3)
    The Bible states: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) The distressed prophet Elijah “began to ask that his soul might die.” (1 Kings 19:4) Likewise, Jonah “kept asking that his soul might die.” (Jonah 4:8) Yes, the soul dies when the person dies; it is not immortal. Since a person is a soul, to say that someone died is to say that his soul died.

    Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.”

    Isa. 53:12: “He poured out his soul [“soul,” RS, KJ, Dy; “life,” TEV; “himself,” JB, Kx, NAB] to the very death.” (Compare Matthew 26:38.)


    Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

    Eccl. 9:10: “All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [“the grave,” KJ, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”

    And no. No one should kill anyone.
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Aug '13 03:07
    Originally posted by galveston75
    .. Since a person is a soul, to say that someone died is to say that his soul died....
    What does Christ mean by this :

    Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Christ is saying that a man can kill your body but cannot kill your soul. Only God can kill the soul.
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    28 Aug '13 03:36
    Originally posted by apathist

    Your other replies were equally goofy.
    ask a goofy question...
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Aug '13 06:341 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    The Bible states: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) The distressed prophet Elijah “began to ask that his soul might die.” (1 Kings 19:4) Likewise, Jonah “kept asking that his soul might die.” (Jonah 4:8) Yes, the soul dies when the person dies; it is not immortal. Since a person is a soul, to say that someone died is to say th ...[text shortened]... ld of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”

    And no. No one should kill anyone.
    Haven't you ever heard of different meanings for the same word? Think hard and I am sure you can come up with many. If not, just open a dictionary and check the different meanings given for the same word. Example: day.

    The Instructor
  10. Standard memberapathist
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    30 Aug '13 21:54
    joseph seems to be an actual coward. You met that type.
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    31 Aug '13 00:38
    Originally posted by apathist
    So in your view dead babies do not get redemption and Heaven, but instead are condemned - luckily, though, God's threat of eternal Hell lasts about one thousand years.
    God is holy and God is good. Even beyond what we can imagine. Knowing that truth, do you really think God will condemn a baby to hell?
    I don't think so...
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    31 Aug '13 00:541 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    What does Christ mean by this :

    Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Christ is saying that a man can kill your body but cannot kill your soul. Only God can kill the soul.
    "At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”
    What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’
    By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him."

    Again the souls dies......

    Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the ne′phesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.&rdquo😉
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    31 Aug '13 00:56
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Haven't you ever heard of different meanings for the same word? Think hard and I am sure you can come up with many. If not, just open a dictionary and check the different meanings given for the same word. Example: day.

    The Instructor
    Lol. Maybe need to take your own advice on the word day...... as in a thousand years as a day in comparison with the creation of the earth?
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    31 Aug '13 01:50
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Lol. Maybe need to take your own advice on the word day...... as in a thousand years as a day in comparison with the creation of the earth?
    Even if you assume the creation days meant 1000 years that would only amount to about 12,000 years. That is not enough time to statisfy the old earth people.

    The Instructor
  15. Standard memberapathist
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    05 Sep '13 23:311 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    ask a goofy question...
    have you stopped beating your wife yet...
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