@medullah saidWhat version are you quoting. Im wary of some recent translations. Several churches and groups have rewritten the KJV with slight modifications to suit their particular doctrine. The JWs have done it, the Sevan Day Adventists, and many others, The KJV :
Would you not say that this suggests that some go to heaven Raj?
Philippians 3 13-14
13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 3:1
The ...[text shortened]... he heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:13-14 KJV)
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; (Hebrews 3:1 KJV)
I get no impression that anyone is going to heaven from those passages. Immediately after in Heb 3 Paul speaks of Moses. Do you think Moses went to heaven? How about David and the other patriarchs ?
1 edit
@medullah saidI am not understanding why you equate heavenly calling with going to heaven. Gad called many people. Did they go to heaven?
@Rajk999
Nobody went to heaven prior to Christ's ascension.
The version was NIV
So what is the heavenly calling about ? Surely their wouldn't be a heavenly calling if it were not to be answered?
In Heb 3 who is it that has a heavenly calling?
1 edit
@KingDavid403
Very good - all the passages on God saving the humble.
Why God even boasted that evil king Ahab once humbled himself before God.
“Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before Me? Because he has humbled himself before Me, I will not bring the calamity during his days, . . . " (1 Kings 21:29)
1 edit
@sonship saidYes, also king Nebuchadnezzar humbled himself etc. Amazing to I.
@KingDavid403
Very good - all the passages on God saving the humble.
Why God even boasted that evil king Ahab once humbled himself before God.
“Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before Me? Because he has humbled himself before Me, I will not bring the calamity during his days, . . . " (1 Kings 21:29)
@rajk999 saidI don't not understand how you could ignore the word "heavenly". God did indeed call many people and most certainly didn't go to heaven, but that door opened under the New Covenant. You will find further references to a heavenly hope at 1 Pet 1:3,4 and Col 1:5 "the hope that is being reserved for you in the heavens".
I am not understanding why you equate heavenly calling with going to heaven. Gad called many people. Did they go to heaven?
In Heb 3 who is it that has a heavenly calling?
@kingdavid403 saidNebuchadnezzar is a great character.
Yes, also king Nebuchadnezzar humbled himself etc. Amazing to I.
His dream in Dan 2 is the first insight into the end of the system as we know it (not the world). We get a glimpse of God's future plans to bring an end to the world's political systems and replace it with a Kingdom that "will never be destroyed". Dan 2:44.
@medullah saidI personally would resist the temptation to call any evil character in the bible, great.
Nebuchadnezzar is a great character.
His dream in Dan 2 is the first insight into the end of the system as we know it (not the world). We get a glimpse of God's future plans to bring an end to the world's political systems and replace it with a Kingdom that "will never be destroyed". Dan 2:44.
2 edits
@medullah said'Heavenly' is used to describe several things [other than calling] in the bible... eg
I don't not understand how you could ignore the word "heavenly". God did indeed call many people and most certainly didn't go to heaven, but that door opened under the New Covenant. You will find further references to a heavenly hope at 1 Pet 1:3,4 and Col 1:5 "the hope that is being reserved for you in the heavens".
- heavenly places
- heavenly country
- heavenly things
- heavenly Kingdom
- heavenly Father
Its my opinion that none of these things mean that anyone is going anywhere in heaven. They all mean things coming from God.
The heavenly hope is the the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God if the commandments of Christ are kept. This is of two parts. The first is to reign with Christ as kings and priests for the millennial reign, and thereafter in the New Jerusalem. None of these are in heaven. The idea of people going to heaven even in the New Covenant is false.
1 edit
The heavenly hope is the the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God if the commandments of Christ are kept. This is of two parts. The first is to reign with Christ as kings and priests for the millennial reign, and thereafter in the New Jerusalem. None of these are in heaven. The idea of people going to heaven even in the New Covenant is false.
Some of this I tried telling you for years. And you fought it all the time, every time.
The millennial kingdom is a reward.
The New Jerusalem after the millennial kingdom is the assurance of once saved always so. Both the rewarded and the defeated remain saved and cannot be unsaved. They cannot be unborn after having been reborn.
For years I tried to get you to see this.
You so hated the assurance of salvation you wouldn't take it.
You so hated OSAS that you knee jerked rejected any thought of reward yet assurance of every believer's eventual full maturity by the time of the end of the millennium.
You're closer to what I've been telling you now.
It appears somewhere you picked up a little correction from somewhere to understand what you previously argued with me about for years.
l
1 edit
@sonship saidWhat foolishness are you deluding yourself about now. There is no such doctrine as 'once saved always saved' in the bible, and assurance of salvation for every believer, does not exist either. It exists only in your mind becuase you have twisted and manipulated the writings of Paul
@Rajk999
[quote] The heavenly hope is the the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God if the commandments of Christ are kept. This is of two parts. The first is to reign with Christ as kings and priests for the millennial reign, and thereafter in the New Jerusalem. None of these are in heaven. The idea of people going to heaven even in the New Covenant is false. [/quo ...[text shortened]... le correction from somewhere to understand what you previously argued with me about for years.
l
I am no closer to you at all. You preach the utter nonsense of people simply professing faith and then being guaranteed eternal life no matter what evil and heins acts of sin they commit. Your nonsensical doctrine is of Satan.
What I do and what I have always done is to quote and keep close to the doctrine of Christ rather than what you do of twisting the teachings of Paul.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:12-15 KJV)
This is the core teaching of Christ. Christ brings with Him, the reward of eternal life for all who keep the commandments.
No teaching of Paul supersedes that.
2 edits
Rajk999 wrote:
The heavenly hope is the the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God if the commandments of Christ are kept. This is of two parts. The first is to reign with Christ as kings and priests for the millennial reign, and thereafter in the New Jerusalem. None of these are in heaven.
Why is the reward in two parts?
Why didn't God simply arrange the reward in one part ?
1 edit
@sonship saidIf you are referring to the Millennial Reign and the New Jerusalem, then you will have to ask Jesus when you meet him and since you tell everyone not to bother to do good works, you will certainly get your chance just like these guys here:
Rajk999 wrote:
The heavenly hope is the the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God if the commandments of Christ are kept. This is of two parts. The first is to reign with Christ as kings and priests for the millennial reign, and thereafter in the New Jerusalem. None of these are in heaven.
Why is the reward in two parts?
Why didn't God simply arrange the reward in one part ?
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Oh and why is the Kingdom in two parts. I asked Rajk999 and he said to ask you.
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Matthew 25:41-46 KJV Plus Sonship)