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    27 Aug '17 15:23
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”


    What did Jesus mean? Does God enable all? If so this would be a meaningless statement. Evidently God enables some to believe and does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
  2. Joined
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    28 Aug '17 22:41
    Another thing I found interesting....

    Jesus allowed people to follow him for a time but recognized them later as not belonging to him after they left.
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    30 Aug '17 01:51
    Originally posted by @eladar
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
    I don't claim to have the answer here, but I've heard it said that faith is a gift, some have it, others don't. Maybe that's what scripture was trying to get across.
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    30 Aug '17 02:22
    Originally posted by @mchill
    I don't claim to have the answer here, but I've heard it said that faith is a gift, some have it, others don't. Maybe that's what scripture was trying to get across.
    Is faith then your doing or God's?
  5. Joined
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    30 Aug '17 04:04
    Originally posted by @eladar
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
    So, what if God has chosen some to believe and others not?

    Is that what you're driving at? If so, then one may well ask is that fair?

    Consider verse 64b. "For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

    The question goes well beyond whether or not God has chosen some to be saved and others lost since God knew from before the beginning who would believe and who would not.

    The passage in question, based on the whole context, will confound the unbeliever to no end. It is God's will and desire that all men be saved. Nevertheless many will reject God's salvation, which is offered to all without exception.

    The idea that God selected some to be lost is evil to the core. It's a lie. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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    30 Aug '17 08:37
    Originally posted by @eladar
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
    Troll much.
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    30 Aug '17 10:53
    Originally posted by @josephw
    So, what [b]if God has chosen some to believe and others not?

    Is that what you're driving at? If so, then one may well ask is that fair?

    Consider verse 64b. "For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."

    The question goes well beyond whether or not God has chosen some to be saved and others lost ...[text shortened]... lected some to be lost is evil to the core. It's a lie. Nothing could be further from the truth.[/b]
    So if what I am saying is true, then you judge God to be evil.
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    30 Aug '17 11:58
    Originally posted by @eladar
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
    Yes, what Jesus said was meaningless cuz he was a racist, a sexist, want's everyone to go to hell, and....um....I forget all the other things you called him.

    Can you remind me again?
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    30 Aug '17 12:41
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So if what I am saying is true, then you judge God to be evil.
    That's just it. Hardly ANYthing you say is true.
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    31 Aug '17 00:26
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Yes, what Jesus said was meaningless cuz he was a racist, a sexist, want's everyone to go to hell, and....um....I forget all the other things you called him.

    Can you remind me again?
    Sexist and racist...

    Tell me are those terms found in the Bible or are those terms thrown around in society?
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    31 Aug '17 00:27
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    That's just it. Hardly ANYthing you say is true.
    It is true according to the Bible.

    Of the 12, how many did Jesus choose that were female?

    He chose some who he knew would betray him, but could not come to grips with choosing a female.
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    31 Aug '17 01:20
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So if what I am saying is true, then you judge God to be evil.
    Is what you're saying true? What are you saying anyway? That God chose some to be lost? To die and go to hell?

    If that's what you're saying, then it is you that is portraying God as evil.

    Prove to me, from the scriptures, that God chose some to be lost.
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    31 Aug '17 01:261 edit
    Originally posted by @josephw
    Is what you're saying true? What are you saying anyway? That God chose some to be lost? To die and go to hell?

    If that's what you're saying, then it is you that is portraying God as evil.

    Prove to me, from the scriptures, that God chose some to be lost.
    Prove to you? I can only show you where to read. If you are blind, it will be useless.

    Try Romans 9.

    Of course what I quoted in this thread also points the way.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Aug '17 01:561 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    It is true according to the Bible.

    Of the 12, how many did Jesus choose that were female?

    He chose some who he knew would betray him, but could not come to grips with choosing a female.
    Thank God that, unlike you, the world has moved on from a time when women were considered unimportant.
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    31 Aug '17 01:59
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    Thank God that, unlike you, the world has moved on from a time when women were unimportant.
    So you are saying that Jesus was a slave to Societal values and did not stand up for truth.
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