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13 May 15
Matthew 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
Some questions:
Will Judgement day really occur on one day? (Is that feasible to judge all people from all nations, who have ever lived, on one day?!?). Surely the 'day' in judgement day is not meant to be taken literally, and if the day in Judgement day is not literal then why would one suppose that the days of creation are a literal account?
Also, why would only the father know when Judgement day was an not the son; if they are indeed the same God?
13 May 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a Dukeyour question assumes the the day in question is the day of judgement, does it not?
Matthew 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
Some questions:
Will Judgement day really occur on one day? (Is that feasible to judge all people from all nations, who have ever lived, on one day?!?). Surely the 'day' in judgement day is not meant to be taken li ...[text shortened]... uld only the father know when Judgement day was an not the son; if they are indeed the same God?
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeMatthew 24:36 is about the Lord's coming not last judgment.
Matthew 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
Some questions:
Will Judgement day really occur on one day? (Is that feasible to judge all people from all nations, who have ever lived, on one day?!?). Surely the 'day' in judgement day is not meant to be taken li ...[text shortened]... uld only the father know when Judgement day was an not the son; if they are indeed the same God?
God is the very Creator of time though. And He could judge a trillion people simultaneously in one moment if He wants to.
Its a joke to think that God will have difficulty in judging everyone who has ever lived however He would do so.
The second question is much debated I think. I would simply say that that passage discloses the Son's limitation at that time.
We Christians believe that God incarnated as a man in Jesus. He was hungry as a man sometimes.
He was surprised at something as a man sometimes.
He was weary as a man,
He wept as a man,
He experienced the limitations of being a man at sometimes.
And He died as a man would die for our eternal redemption.
And He experienced the trust toward the Father and subordination to the Father as a man should.
At other times His transcendence as the omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God was expressed. He expressed what God wanted to Him to express at the appropriate moment in the right way.
The particular passage in which He says only the Father knows something I would take as an instance of Him expressing the limitations of one in obedience and subordination to His Father at that moment.
The eternal and the temporal were mingled as one Person.
The limited and the unlimited were mingled as one Person.
God and man were mingled as one Wonderful Person in Christ.
Originally posted by sonshipThe verse is a direct refutation of the pagan trinity doctrine after all its hard to explain how the father knows but the son doesn't if they are the same entity, isn't it.
Matthew 24:36 is about the Lord's coming not last judgment.
God is the very Creator of time though. And He could judge a trillion people simultaneously in one moment if He wants to.
Its a joke to think that God will have difficulty in judging everyone who has ever lived however He would do so.
The second question is much debated I think. I wo ...[text shortened]... mited were mingled as one Person.
God and man were mingled as one Wonderful Person in Christ.
13 May 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIt appears to me the the verse in question is a reference to a day of execution rather than a period of judgement. This would indicate that the condemned had already been judged, just as they were over a period during the time of Noah.
Matthew 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only."
Some questions:
Will Judgement day really occur on one day? (Is that feasible to judge all people from all nations, who have ever lived, on one day?!?). Surely the 'day' in judgement day is not meant to be taken li ...[text shortened]... uld only the father know when Judgement day was an not the son; if they are indeed the same God?
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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The verse is a direct refutation of the pagan trinity doctrine after all its hard to explain how the father knows but the son doesn't if they are the same entity, isn't it.
The verse is a direct refutation of the pagan trinity doctrine after all its hard to explain how the father knows but the son doesn't if they are the same entity, isn't it.
Sure it is hard to explain. That is why the Son is called Wonderful in Isaiah 9:6. But He is not hard to experience to those who believe and receive Christ.
You've been brainwashed to see "pagan" superstition where the Bible reveals that God is Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
Where it says "And the Word was God." - you see pagan superstition.
Where it says one name - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - you see "pagan superstition."
Where it says the child born is called the Mighty God - you see pagan superstition.
Where it says the Son given is called eternal Father - you see pagan superstition.
Where it says "Now the Lord is the Spirit" - what do you see? You see what you have been brainwashed to see - "pagan superstition."
13 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipSo your explanation of this rather damning refutation of the trinity is that its because Jesus is wonderful. Wow - no more questions.The verse is a direct refutation of the pagan trinity doctrine after all its hard to explain how the father knows but the son doesn't if they are the same entity, isn't it.
Sure it is hard to explain. That is why the Son is called [b]Wonderful in Isaiah 9:6. But He is not hard to experience to those who believe and receive Christ.
...[text shortened]... t" [/b] - what do you see? You see what you have been brainwashed to see - "pagan superstition."[/b]
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13 May 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGo get your Hebrew dictionary and study the meaning of the word [peleh] there translated "Wonderful".
So your explanation of this rather damning refutation of the trinity is that its because Jesus is wonderful. Wow - no more questions.
Originally posted by sonshipThanks but I have no doubt that Jesus is wonderful - to use that as an attempt to explain why the verse in question is not a refutation of the trinity begs belief and clearly either you are so wired to the moon and incapable of rational thought or you have been indoctrinated to the extent that it prevents you from reasoning logically.
Go get your Hebrew dictionary and study the meaning of the word [b] [peleh] there translated "Wonderful". [/b]
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Originally posted by sonshipNo disrespect intended, but that sounds rather like my parents explanation of how Santa Claus managed to deliver all those presents in one night.
God is the very Creator of time though. And He could judge a trillion people simultaneously in one moment if He wants to.
Originally posted by sonshipHow would you refute Jesus' own words at: (John 20:17) Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”The verse is a direct refutation of the pagan trinity doctrine after all its hard to explain how the father knows but the son doesn't if they are the same entity, isn't it.
Sure it is hard to explain. That is why the Son is called [b]Wonderful in Isaiah 9:6. But He is not hard to experience to those who believe and receive Christ.
...[text shortened]... t" [/b] - what do you see? You see what you have been brainwashed to see - "pagan superstition."[/b]
At this point Jesus was not human but in his resurrected form.
Why did Jesus say he had a God?
Why didn't he say I am God?
13 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipHave you considered the possibility that God's powerful active force, His as it is called Holy Spirit was working through Jesus as a human to give him the ability to perform the miracles he did.
Matthew 24:36 is about the Lord's coming not last judgment.
God is the very Creator of time though. And He could judge a trillion people simultaneously in one moment if He wants to.
Its a joke to think that God will have difficulty in judging everyone who has ever lived however He would do so.
The second question is much debated I think. I wo ...[text shortened]... mited were mingled as one Person.
God and man were mingled as one Wonderful Person in Christ.
Moses parted the Red Sea by Jehovah God's power. He did not need to be God nor do we say he is God, so why make that claim for Jesus?
Jesus was a man just like Moses!
(Acts 3:22, 23) In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. 23 Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’
Should we not listen to Jesus when he says: (John 14:28) You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is "greater" than I am.
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13 May 15
Originally posted by roigam
Have you considered the possibility that God's powerful active force, His as it is called Holy Spirit was working through Jesus as a human to give him the ability to perform the miracles he did.
The Holy Spirit speaks - "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (see Rev. 2:7,11,17,29;3:6,13,22) .
Unlike a mere force the Holy Spirit can also be grieved - "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)
Moses parted the Red Sea by Jehovah God's power. He did not need to be God nor do we say he is God, so why make that claim for Jesus?
My God is the man Jesus Christ.
And the Lord Jesus Christ today has also a "pneumatic" form in which He can abide with me. So the New Testament teaches that the Lord Christ Jesus is the Spirit -
"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord ..." (2 Cor. 4:5a)
"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." (2 Cor. 3:17)
We can receive Jesus Christ into our innermost being because He is the Holy Spirit who gives Himself to us as divine life -
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Jesus was a man just like Moses!
Moses was a born man. Jesus is the Lord out of and from heaven -
"The first man is out of the earth, earthy; the second man is out of heaven." (1 Cor. 15:47)
(Acts 3:22, 23) In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me.
In many respect Jesus is like Moses.
This does not mean that He is not the Word was with God and was God. And the Word became flesh (John 1:1,14)
Jesus is LIKE every man in that regard -
"Since therefore the children have shared in blood and flesh, He also Himself in like manner partook of the same, ..." (Hebrews 2:14)
Saying He is like Moses, or Elijah or even someone less spectacular is true because He became like us -
"Hence He should have been made like His brothers in all things that He might become a merciful and faithful High Priest in the things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people." (Hebrews 2:17)
In being without sin though, He was not like us.
In God being a genuine man in Jesus Christ He was like us.
You must listen to whatever he tells you.
I listen to the Bible.
I listen to my experience and the experience of my Christian brothers and sisters. We know that we have met Jesus Christ.
I do not listen to the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses because they are being trained to rebel against Jehovah.
23 Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’
Should we not listen to Jesus when he says: (John 14:28) You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is "greater" than I am.
I do rejoice. The going away there is His going away to the cross. And by going away to the cross He prepared a place for us in the Father's house so that He could come and make an abode with us.
"In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be." (John 14:2)
He meant that He was going to the cross to prepare a place for us to get into God and for God to get into us. Then the reality of oneness with the Father we may enjoy also.
I know the Bible better than you do. But more importantly, I have experience of it being expedient that Christ go away. Because in going to the cross He rose and became the life giving Spirit to impart Himself into my heart.
"I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (John 14:18)
He came to His believers who love Him as the life giving Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45; 2 Cor. 3:17) not leaving us as orphans.
And in this way He and the Father as the divine "We" came to make an abode with His lovers.
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
This is why I believe in the Triune God - the Trinity. That is because the Father and the Son as the Holy Spirit come as the Divine "We" to make an abode with me, just as He taught.
You are missing the Jesus Christ Who can come INTO your heart and live in you. You are missing the Jehovah God who dispenses His Spirit INTO your human spirit.
You are being robbed of this enjoyment by the Jehovah's Witnesses who are bent on teaching you how to REBEL against Jehovah.
13 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipIf you truly listen to God's Word the Bible, how do you understandHave you considered the possibility that God's powerful active force, His as it is called Holy Spirit was working through Jesus as a human to give him the ability to perform the miracles he did.
The Holy Spirit speaks - [b]"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (see Rev. 2:7,11,17,29;3:6,13,22) .
...[text shortened]... enjoyment by the Jehovah's Witnesses who are bent on teaching you how to REBEL against Jehovah.[/b]
(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time;
Did men see Jesus? If so, Jesus cannot be God.