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Originally posted by JS357Well as for some, they're quite busy bickering and arguing over whos variant of the Bible is most wrong...perhaps when they've settled the matter they'll turn their thoughts to wider issues. As for others, it may be the case that, like myself, they don't get the allowance from their internet providers to stream and view many videos.
I would like to be in a a group of people who agree to view and then discuss these lectures. Unfortunately, with people like yourself as exceptions, it does not appear that people want to view and then discuss. Also, in 3 days I am off for a month in Italy.🙂 Thank you for your considered response.
It is revealing to see how people react to my posting of this link.
You might be better served by extracting and articulating the main moral points you wish to discuss in your own words, then providing the links for those who want to have a further look.
As for lying, one of my favourite subjects to discuss; abstracting the notion of communicating deceptive information from any specific scenario, I have seen no arguments put forth that objectively show how lying is universally wrong or morally bad.
There are such arguments like:
1) It degrades trust.
This line of attack insists that whatever ends are served by lying, however great or small the magnitude of said lie, achieving such ends always fails to compensate, for any loss of trust, the recipient of a lie who has unmasked it. It is a claim that nobody on this forum, to my memory, has made any steps to demonstrate as true beyond making the simple assertion: "lying degrades trust".
Moreover, trust in what exactly? trust that they will always provide accurate information!? What about trust that they're looking out for your best interests?
2) It is counter the the decrees within the Bible and counter to the nature of God.
Well...avoiding my kneejerk reaction which would be so what!?, even if we forced ourselves to believe that what is morally good is what it is said some god decides is morally god my question is: Why can't gods lie? and why couldn't, for pragmatic reasons, some god lie if it decrees to us humans lying is wrong?
3) It presents people with a skewed reality
This means the deception worked then! That's what lies are meant to do...So what!? why is this always an intrinsically bad thing?
Often people give me a complement which I know is not true, but whether I had spotted the lie or not, the net result is sometimes better for me since
a) If their lie succeeds, this misdirected confidence I have in my abilities might actually serve, via placebo, to render the lie a truth anyway!
b) if their lie fails then though I am aware now they can't always be relied upon to give me accurate information, I am also better aware now that this person had the respect for my feelings not to offend me with the truth; and acknowledging their good intentions with the lie I have more information about this person's favourable opinion of me.
4) It is always better to avoid lying by, for example, withholding (believed) factual information instead of conveying (believed) false information
This line of attack demands that in all cases, the payoff for the time and effort spent, and subsequent questions induced by a partially complete answer (true or untrue) is always greater than the payoff for telling even the simplest of lies. The only efforts I've seen to defend this universal claim is by focusing on a couple of special cases; as if these were sufficent to demonstrate it is true in all of them!
There are other objections to lying also...
Unbiased and undamaged by religious dogma I proudly assert that lying is sometimes an optimal strategy; and without question, I would gladly tell a lie if I thought it would serve the greater good.
As for other moral issues I haven't got enough to go on to talk about them yet.
Originally posted by RJHinds"We may wonder why the Jews, if they heard this confession, did not press it upon the attention of Pilate as a full confession of his guilt. It was what they had accused him of. But it might be doubtful whether, in the confusion, they heard the confession; or, if they did, Jesus took away all occasion of triumph by explaining to Pilate the "nature" of his kingdom, John 18:36. Though he acknowledged that he was a king, yet he stated fully that "his kingdom was not of this world," and that therefore it could not be alleged against him as treason against the Roman emperor. This was done "in the palace," apart from the Jews, and fully satisfied Pilate of his innocence, John 18:23. "
The majority new that was the right thing to do because it was written
in there hearts. My comment on 7 was because of how Jesus
responded to similar incidents. When asked by the high priest, if He
was the Christ, the Son of God, and knowing the consequences of His
answer, He did not attempt to evade the answer. Jesus said to him,
"You said it yourse ...[text shortened]... ou the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, It is as
you say." (Matthew 27:11 NASB)
http://bible.cc/matthew/27-11.htm