1. Joined
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    01 May '11 16:59
    I am recommending this video series on the Debate and Spirituality forums. You don't have to view them in sequence although it probably helps some. Try out Lecture 5 for example. Michael Sandel is engaging and even entertaining.

    Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?
    Michael Sandel

    http://academicearth.org/courses/justice-whats-the-right-thing-to-do
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    01 May '11 19:26
    Originally posted by JS357
    I am recommending this video series on the Debate and Spirituality forums. You don't have to view them in sequence although it probably helps some. Try out Lecture 5 for example. Michael Sandel is engaging and even entertaining.

    Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?
    Michael Sandel

    http://academicearth.org/courses/justice-whats-the-right-thing-to-do
    The thing about justice or what is moral requires some code, without one than
    all we have are opinions and desires. If there isn't a place where you know, you
    are right side up, you'll never know if you are upside down.
    Kelly
  3. Joined
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    01 May '11 23:08
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    The thing about justice or what is moral requires some code, without one than
    all we have are opinions and desires. If there isn't a place where you know, you
    are right side up, you'll never know if you are upside down.
    Kelly
    Imagine a streetcar was out of control and headed toward 5 people and will kill them if nothing is done. You can divert the streetcar, and save those 5, but then it will hit one person, who will die. What parts of your moral code apply here, and what do they tell you to do? Should the laws of your society be written to punish others if they do not do what your moral code requires?
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    01 May '11 23:161 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    Imagine a streetcar was out of control and headed toward 5 people and will kill them if nothing is done. You can divert the streetcar, and save those 5, but then it will hit one person, who will die. What parts of your moral code apply here, and what do they tell you to do? Should the laws of your society be written to punish others if they do not do what your moral code requires?
    Please people make choices like that all the time now days and our society is
    proud of have "choice". You don't need a good reason or bad one, just want
    to and it is okay. Is five better or worse than one, shear math if that is your
    scale than kill off a few to save the many, shall our reason for killing them
    be they are a drain on the rest of us? I'd be careful where you take this
    discussion for justification for killing is just a mindset for some.
    Kelly
  5. Joined
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    01 May '11 23:511 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    I am recommending this video series on the Debate and Spirituality forums. You don't have to view them in sequence although it probably helps some. Try out Lecture 5 for example. Michael Sandel is engaging and even entertaining.

    Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?
    Michael Sandel

    http://academicearth.org/courses/justice-whats-the-right-thing-to-do
    Thanks for passing this along.

    Watched "Lecture 7 - Lying and Principles" and found it interesting but can't say as I agreed with the assessment of the hypothetical case: "if your friend were hiding inside your home, and a person intent on killing your friend came to your door and asked you where he was, would it be wrong to tell a lie?" I didn't buy the points surrounding telling a "misleading truth".
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    02 May '11 01:10
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Thanks for passing this along.

    Watched "Lecture 7 - Lying and Principles" and found it interesting but can't say as I agreed with the assessment of the hypothetical case: "if your friend were hiding inside your home, and a person intent on killing your friend came to your door and asked you where he was, would it be wrong to tell a lie?" I didn't buy the points surrounding telling a "misleading truth".
    Don't mix moral law with God's law. Don't mix lies with the truth.
  7. Joined
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    02 May '11 01:473 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Don't mix moral law with God's law. Don't mix lies with the truth.
    Did you inadvertly respond to the wrong post?

    If not, can you tell me specifically how this applies to my post?

    While you're at it, what do you see as "God's law" and how does it differ with "moral law"?
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 May '11 02:32
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Did you inadvertly respond to the wrong post?

    If not, can you tell me specifically how this applies to my post?

    While you're at it, what do you see as "God's law" and how does it differ with "moral law"?
    God's law is the fixed laws of the universe plus the unfixed laws given
    to man in the form of the ten commandments. Moral law is manmade
    and consists of laws that attempts to force man to conform to man's
    idea of what is the right thing to do.
  9. Joined
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    02 May '11 02:401 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    God's law is the fixed laws of the universe plus the unfixed laws given
    to man in the form of the ten commandments. Moral law is manmade
    and consists of laws that attempts to force man to conform to man's
    idea of what is the right thing to do.
    Once again, can you tell me specifically how your earlier post applied to my earlier post?

    To make sure I understand you, "God's law" is wholly contained in the ten commandments? If not, what does it include?
  10. Joined
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    02 May '11 02:44
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Thanks for passing this along.

    Watched "Lecture 7 - Lying and Principles" and found it interesting but can't say as I agreed with the assessment of the hypothetical case: "if your friend were hiding inside your home, and a person intent on killing your friend came to your door and asked you where he was, would it be wrong to tell a lie?" I didn't buy the points surrounding telling a "misleading truth".
    I would like to be in a a group of people who agree to view and then discuss these lectures. Unfortunately, with people like yourself as exceptions, it does not appear that people want to view and then discuss. Also, in 3 days I am off for a month in Italy.🙂 Thank you for your considered response.

    It is revealing to see how people react to my posting of this link.
  11. Joined
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    02 May '11 02:46
    Originally posted by JS357
    I would like to be in a a group of people who agree to view and then discuss these lectures. Unfortunately, with people like yourself as exceptions, it does not appear that people want to view and then discuss. Also, in 3 days I am off for a month in Italy.🙂 Thank you for your considered response.

    It is revealing to see how people react to my posting of this link.
    Well, if you decide later that you want to discuss it, let me know.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 May '11 03:18
    Originally posted by JS357
    I would like to be in a a group of people who agree to view and then discuss these lectures. Unfortunately, with people like yourself as exceptions, it does not appear that people want to view and then discuss. Also, in 3 days I am off for a month in Italy.🙂 Thank you for your considered response.

    It is revealing to see how people react to my posting of this link.
    It appears you did not like my response. But hasn't Jesus the Christ
    already settled these questions and written the answers in our hearts.
    He died on the cross to save the many as one example.
  13. Joined
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    02 May '11 03:34
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    It appears you did not like my response. But hasn't Jesus the Christ
    already settled these questions and written the answers in our hearts.
    He died on the cross to save the many as one example.
    So on that basis you would divert the street car which would kill 1, to save 5. Is that correct? I was not aware that you had seen any of the lectures. I think this example is in the first one.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 May '11 04:21
    Originally posted by JS357
    So on that basis you would divert the street car which would kill 1, to save 5. Is that correct? I was not aware that you had seen any of the lectures. I think this example is in the first one.
    The majority new that was the right thing to do because it was written
    in there hearts. My comment on 7 was because of how Jesus
    responded to similar incidents. When asked by the high priest, if He
    was the Christ, the Son of God, and knowing the consequences of His
    answer, He did not attempt to evade the answer. Jesus said to him,
    "You said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you shall see
    the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the
    clouds of heaven." (Matthew 26:64 New American Standard Bible)

    Jesus even adds more than He was asked. And later knowing that
    He could give an evasive answer to governor Pilate, since He was
    not officially recognized as the King of the Jews at that time, He did
    not lie.

    Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him,
    saying, "Are you the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, It is as
    you say." (Matthew 27:11 NASB)
  15. Joined
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    02 May '11 05:29
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The majority new that was the right thing to do because it was written
    in there hearts. My comment on 7 was because of how Jesus
    responded to similar incidents. When asked by the high priest, if He
    was the Christ, the Son of God, and knowing the consequences of His
    answer, He did not attempt to evade the answer. Jesus said to him,
    "You said it yourse ...[text shortened]... ou the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, It is as
    you say." (Matthew 27:11 NASB)
    So on that basis you would divert the street car which would kill 1, to save 5. Is that correct?
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