Lake of fire....

@galveston75 said
The subject you are trying to switch too has been discusses by myself to the three of you at least 5 or more times in the past. I will not discuss it again.

You have been exposed. You have flat out lied about what your non-profit corporation's magazine said about its members and "salvation". What are wittering on about now? What your non-profit corporation's magazine said about "The Lake of Fire"? You have no credibility.

@divegeester

Actually I don’t put much stock in them either.

Do you put any stock in the words of Christ ?

Or do you designate the ones that you don't like as "sick" ?

@divegeester

Oh I see, so there are multiple places where your God will be burning non Christians alive for eternity.

Whatever floats your sick boat sonship.

In no verse in the Scripture I know is the word "non Christians" used.

Why did Revelation 20:15 say those whose names were not in the book of life rather than "non Christians" ?

Why didn't Jesus refer to the sheep as "Christians" and the goats as "non Christians" in Matthew 25 ?

@sonship said
In no verse in the Scripture I know is the word "non Christians" used.

Why did Revelation 20:15 say those whose names were not in the book of life rather than "non Christians" ?

Why didn't Jesus refer to the sheep as "Christians" and the goats as "non Christians" in Matthew 25 ?

Philokalia recently claimed that some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists [non-Christians] who do not believe in Jesus will be "saved" and therefore spared being tormented in burning flames for eternity. Is this what you are getting at too?

@fmf said
You have been exposed. You have flat out lied about what your non-profit corporation's magazine said about its members and "salvation". What are wittering on about now? What your non-profit corporation's magazine said about "The Lake of Fire"? You have no credibility.

I can't speak for Galveston or Jehovah's Witnesses at all, but isn't it possible that the position has changed, or is more nuanced, or the interpretation of that is wrong?

I just believe in letting a person speak for themselves and respecting the space that they have for their own beliefs.

@FMF

Philokalia recently claimed that some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists [non-Christians] who do not believe in Jesus will be "saved" and therefore spared being tormented in burning flames for eternity. Is this what you are getting at too?

The light that they had, I am sure God takes into account in His decisions. But I cannot detail this all out.


You ask as if it is the first time I told you that at least I expect surprises.
You should have seen me write that I expect surprises eight to ten times in three years.
Surprises means that I cannot detail what they will be right now, otherwise they would not be surprises.

Four to five or more times in five years I have elaborated on Matthew 25:32-46 that the sheep there are not Christians but are evaluated by Christ in accord to how they treated Christians and the elect Jews - the Lord's brothers down to the least of them.

Four of five times in three of more years I have expressed my thought that "No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6) may not be exactly the same as what we would think as "No one comes to the Father ..." (John 14:6) "except through Christianity"

I said that I believe that the "Me" there is the living "Me" of the Person of Jesus Christ.
No one comes to the Father except through the living Person of Jesus.
If someone I didn't expect comes to the Father it will only have happened because of Jesus Christ.

That is somewhat how I take that verse. No one taught me to take it that way.

On a number of occasions I have also elaborated on "the eternal Gospel" preached by the angel in the air at the darkest time of the great tribulation in Revelation 14:6-7 that it is not the same as the Gospel of Grace preached by the church during the church age per se. It is a gospel of God the Creator - the eternal gospel to fear God the Creator in reaction to men following Antichrist.

You have a strong memory for certain things. And other things you ask me about repeatedly as to indicate that you have NO MEMORY at all of my discussing them in the past.

@sonship said
@FMF

Philokalia recently claimed that some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists [non-Christians] who do not believe in Jesus will be "saved" and therefore spared being tormented in burning flames for eternity. Is this what you are getting at too?

You ask as if it is the first time I told you that at least I expect surprises.
You should ha ...[text shortened]... me about repeatedly as to indicate that you have NO MEMORY at all of my discussing them in the past.

You have never said anything that equated to "some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists who do not believe in Jesus will be "saved" and therefore spared being tormented in burning flames for eternity". Never. You have never said anything remotely like 'some people who do not believe in Jesus will be saved'. So, do you agree with Philokalia?

@FMF

You have never said anything that equated to "some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists who do not believe in Jesus will be "saved" and therefore spared being tormented in burning flames for eternity". Never. You have never said anything remotely like 'some people who do not believe in Jesus will be saved'. So, do you agree with Philokalia?

That is right that I never wrote that. I never put it exactly like that.
But I said I expect surprises.

So I do not go as far to say he is right in exactly the way he puts it.
But I expect that we will be surprised.

Very early in the Bible is the challenge of Abraham to God in His judging of Sodom. Would the Judge of all the earth do justly? is what Abraham said to challenge God in Genesis 18.

I wrote recently that He will not fail to be just.
Any expectation that God overlooks something relevant is a fool's assumption.
Any hope that the matter of total omniscience of each person's circumstances escapes God, is doomed to disappointment.

Recently, I wrote for the first time here that I doubt that in all cases physical death is the absolute end of all person's opportunity to be saved. This should have been on the thread where I quoted G.H. Lang's book "The Last Assize" where I think he finally convinced me of this.

I think it sounds right in light of all the Bible reveals.

Basically Lang's logic goes like this:

Jesus told us that if SOME had known what His immediate audience knew, they would have repented.
This G.H. Lang says, we Christians may make the mistake of putting certain people in history beyond hope prematurely.

"If they had known they would have repented" seems to imply that Christ knows more than we who has crossed the line into irredeemability whereas we are not that omniscient.

@sonship said
So I do not go as far to say he is right in exactly the way he puts it.

So, you don't agree with what Philokalia said?

@FMF

So, you don't agree with what Philokalia said?

I don't feel to pinpoint it down much further in a binary fashion.

I feel to leave it at "I expect SURPRISES".

What is it to not believe in Jesus for some people? I am not sure.
A child who has known nothing but statues of a man is told about it being Jesus.

If he rejects that is that to not believe in Jesus ?
I am not sure.

Another person is taught from early that Jesus is the head of the white Aryan race of supremacist. For him to disbelieve this, is that to not believe in Jesus ? I am not sure.

So I know you would like to corner me into a more definite YES I agree or NO I do not, I think I'll leave that matter as expressed. I expect surprises.

What you need to consider is that their situation (cultural Hindu, cultural Moslem or Buddhist,) is probably not your situation.

@sonship said
@FMF

So, you don't agree with what Philokalia said?

I don't feel to pinpoint it down much further in a binary fashion.

I feel to leave it at "I expect SURPRISES".

What is it to not believe in Jesus for some people? I am not sure.
A child who has known nothing but statues of a man is told about it being Jesus.

If he rejects that is that to ...[text shortened]... hat their situation (cultural Hindu, cultural Moslem or Buddhist,) is probably not your situation.

To be clear. Was Philokalia mistaken when he claimed people who do not believe in Jesus will among those "saved"?

@sonship said
A child who has known nothing but statues of a man is told about it being Jesus.

If he rejects that is that to not believe in Jesus ?

Philokalia wasn't talking about children.

@sonship said
Another person is taught from early that Jesus is the head of the white Aryan race of supremacist. For him to disbelieve this, is that to not believe in Jesus ? I am not sure.

Philokalia believes some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists who do not believe in Jesus will be "saved". It's got nothing to do with white supremacists.

@sonship said
So I know you would like to corner me into a more definite YES I agree or NO I do not

Well, forget about Philokalia then. Forget about what he believes. What about you? Do you believe that some Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists ~ who do not believe in Jesus ~ will be "saved"?