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Hey I have some great news!
Ooh tell me!
Jesus loves you.
Who??
Jesus, Jesus in the Bible.
What’s the “Bible”?
It’s a book all about God.
Who wrote it?
Lots of people over thousands of years.
How do you know it’s true?
Because it says it is the truth and also my Pastor told me it’s true.
Hmm OK, maybe....tell me about this Jesus then...
Jesus is God’s son sent to die for us, to save us from our sins because even though we are sinners he still loves us so much
That’s nice, wow, cool guy, I guess
You “guess”?
Well who knows if it’s real or not!?
You have to believe...
I don’t think I can believe, I’m sorry but it all seems a bit far-fetched to me
If you don’t choose to believe you will go to hell and be burnt alive forever with all the other sinners who didn’t choose to believe.
Uncool! Who’s gonna do that!!?
Jesus.
But..........
If you want to reach the lost with the Gospel 2019 then drop this ridiculous doctrine of death and accept that it is error. At least then the good news may be morally coherent.
Thank you.
@divegeester saidThe "good news(the gospel)" is, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
[i]Hey I have some great news!
Ooh tell me!
Jesus loves you.
Who??
Jesus, Jesus in the Bible.
What’s the “Bible”?
It’s a book all about God.
Who wrote it?
Lots of people over thousands of years.
How do you know it’s true?
Because it says it is the truth and also my Pastor told me it’s true.
Hmm OK, maybe....tell me about this Jesus then...
Jesus is God’s son ...[text shortened]... death and accept that it is error. At least then the good news may be morally coherent.
Thank you.
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deuteronomy 30:15
Read the full contexts of both passages. The principle is the same. Jesus quoted more from Deuteronomy than any other Old Testament book.
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@secondson saidIt’s not me you need to convince Joseph.
The "good news(the gospel)" is, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deuteronomy 30:15
Read the full contexts of both passages. The principle is the same. Jesus quoted more from Deuteronomy than any other Old Testament book.
@divegeester saidDivegeester, how does that comment reconcile with the intent of your OP and my subsequent reply to it?
It’s not me you need to convince Joseph.
Where's the thread?
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@secondson saidI’m already a Christian Joseph, it is the countless millions of unbelievers such as FMF, GoaD et al that require the benefit of your salesmanship in this matter.
Divegeester, how does that comment reconcile with the intent of your OP and my subsequent reply to it?
Where's the thread?
@divegeester saidWhat "matter"? Do you mean this one?
I’m already a Christian Joseph, it is the countless millions of unbelievers such as FMF, GoaD et al that require the benefit of your salesmanship in this matter.
"If you want to reach the lost with the Gospel 2019 then drop this ridiculous doctrine of death and accept that it is error. At least then the good news may be morally coherent."
The gospel says, among other things, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
"See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;" Deuteronomy 30:15
Where's the "error"? Why are you "taking away" from the gospel what is clearly stated in it?
Believing in Jesus is life, but not believing is death.
This is the "matter" you spoke of in your OP, and it the matter I'm addressing.
And you're running away from it.
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@secondson saidYes, that’s it old chap.
What "matter"? Do you mean this one?
"If you want to reach the lost with the Gospel 2019 then drop this ridiculous doctrine of death and accept that it is error. At least then the good news may be morally coherent."
The gospel says, among other things, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not pe ...[text shortened]... tter" you spoke of in your OP, and it the matter I'm addressing.
And you're running away from it.
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@secondson saidThere is only one poster in this forum who runs away from this topic and that is you @josephw.
And you're running away from it.
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@sonship saidSonship please feel free to address my OP which attacks the idea of a literal hell and literal eternal suffering.
@divegeester
Dive's new improved Christian consequential-LESS theology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq734_nZ7Eo
It remains unclear as to what SecondSon actually believes about this topic, but when he was posting as Josephw he would as he is now, repeatedly insist on the literal interpretation of scripture as you and KellyJay do but deny the outcome of taking that stance. A sort of bizzare head in the sand attitude.
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Sonship please feel free to address my OP which attacks the idea of a literal hell and literal eternal suffering.
It remains unclear as to what SecondSon actually believes about this topic, but when he was posting as Josephw he would as he is now, repeatedly insist on the literal interpretation of scripture as you and KellyJay do but deny the outcome of taking that stance. A sort of bizzare head in the sand attitude.
So a poster changes his id and you're eager to make it his embarrassment for doing so ?
Joseph / SecondSon SecondSon / Joseph Big deal.
So that point is useless.
Were you hoping for a few points on that one ?
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As for literal or not eternal conscious punishment ? None of us have experienced death yet. And God has a job to do. That job includes telling us of things about what has not yet been experienced in words which communicate.
God has communicated to us about eternal separation under the wrath of God.
He has done so in human language words which convey the situation.
Nothing about it communicates something benign. The words used communicate that it is something we should want to avoid at all costs.
I trust God that He knew what He is doing to convey in words which we can understand that a "lake of fire" cannot mean anything anyone should want to experience.
It is more profitable for me to contemplate WHAT Christ has done to save me from whatever those words turn out to be.
This is all rehash of things I have written to you years before. Arguing over the temperature of hell or other scientific things you think nullify God's words don't remove in the least the warning's effect.
Insisting on greater and greater leeway for symbolic speaking does nothing to remove the divinely communicated dread of rejecting Christ's giving of Himself that we could be justified before God - reconciled to God.
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@sonship saidRead my OP a few times and reflect on what it is that you actually believe.
As for literal or not eternal conscious punishment ? None of us have experienced death yet. And God has a job to do. That job includes telling us of things about what has not yet been experienced in words which communicate.
God has communicated to us about eternal separation under the wrath of God.
He has done so in human language words which convey the situation. ...[text shortened]... rist's giving of Himself that we could be justified before God - reconciled to God.
@divegeester saidWhat does it matter if they believe in a hell, especially since you don't believe any of us will be punished for believing bad or wrong things by saying that their is no hell?
[i]Hey I have some great news!
Ooh tell me!
Jesus loves you.
Who??
Jesus, Jesus in the Bible.
What’s the “Bible”?
It’s a book all about God.
Who wrote it?
Lots of people over thousands of years.
How do you know it’s true?
Because it says it is the truth and also my Pastor told me it’s true.
Hmm OK, maybe....tell me about this Jesus then...
Jesus is God’s son ...[text shortened]... death and accept that it is error. At least then the good news may be morally coherent.
Thank you.
Very bizarre.
@whodey saidSpeaking as an atheist, what matters - or what is interesting about the man-made ideology of eternal torture in "Hell"/"Lake of Fire" - is the implication for the credibility or coherence of the moral compass of the ideology's proponent. To me, it's not a "bizarre" thing to scrutinize at all ~ even if the superstitious content itself is undoubtedly bizarre.
What does it matter if they believe in a hell, especially since you don't believe any of us will be punished for believing bad or wrong things by saying that their is no hell?
Very bizarre.