Leaving the OSAS camp

It seems KellyJay has left these losers. Here he says :

I've never said it was impossible to lose one's salvation I don't believe
that is scriptural. There are so many warnings about it in scripture it is
not funny!

It is unscriptural to believe that it is impossible to lose ones salvation. There are far too many warnings.

So KJ, why not spread the good news about your change of doctrine. Years ago you sat squarely in their camp and supported the notion that once you are saved you cannot lose your salvation.

Christ said: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:13-16 KJV)

So maybe you can help to enlighten those who lack the level of understanding you have reached.

Originally posted by Rajk999
It seems KellyJay has left these losers. Here he says :

I've never said it was impossible to lose one's salvation I don't believe
that is scriptural. There are so many warnings about it in scripture it is
not funny!

It is unscriptural to believe that it is impossible to lose ones salvation. There are far too many warnings.

So KJ, why not ...[text shortened]...
So maybe you can help to enlighten those who lack the level of understanding you have reached.

That you think Kelly is "enlightened" and sufficiently coherent to convince others here that you are right, says a lot about your grasp of reality.

Originally posted by divegeester
That you think Kelly is "enlightened" and sufficiently coherent to convince others here that you are right, says a lot about your grasp of reality.

Convince others that I am right? Whats that about?

KJ said he believes in something so Im asking him to expand .. and to do it away from the FMF and other controversies he has in the other threads.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Convince others that I am right? Whats that about?

KJ said he believes in something so Im asking him to expand .. and to do it away from the FMF and other controversies he has in the other threads.

Good luck.

Originally posted by divegeester
Good luck.

😀 .. you dont really mean that ..

Originally posted by Rajk999
😀 .. you dont really mean that ..

I do in every sense, except that I don't believe in luck.

Originally posted by Rajk999

It is unscriptural to believe that it is impossible to lose ones salvation. There are far too many warnings.

Of course the very word "salvation" has nuances of meaning in the Bible.

For example - "So then, my beloved, ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; For it is God who operates in you both the willing and the working for his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:12,13)

In the context this exhortation is about the "salvation" from murmoring, self exaltation, rivalry and some of the other soul ailments bothering the Christians in the church in Philippi.

Can one lose then, this "salvation"? Sure if one neglects to cooperate with the inward working God - "for it is God who operates in you both the willing and the working for His good pleasure."

God's "good pleasure" obviously is not ONLY the sinner's forgiveness. His "good pleasure" includes the salvation from the old nature that he may be "blameless and guileless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked generation, among whom you shine as limunaries in the world ..." (v.15)

... Is he still awake ? Is Rajk999 still awake? Long post here.

Anyway, this is a "salvation" from "murmurings and reasonings" - something I we Christians are often plagued with. This "salvation" is other than receiving eternal redemption - eternal life.

No realistic person would say "OSAS" in terms of the salvation from these defeated bad moods of the untransformed soul.

Christ said: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

I believe that this passage is much like the previous one in Philppians 2:12. It is important to realize that God's good pleasure is not simply that the sinner be forgiven forever.

For the kingdom people in Matthew to become cast out is not to perish forever. But concerning the kingdom testimony they have become like salt that has lost its taste.

Salt is a preservative. And "the salt of earth" means that the kingdom people of Jesus should be an influence on the world preventing the whole society from becoming rotten, as food would rot without salt as a preservative.

They cannot save the world. They can hold back the downward slide into corruption somewhat. They should. If they join the downward descent into corruption, they have become ones losing the saltiness.

Now are such ones condemned to eternal perdition? In the parallel passage in Luke we read -

"Therefore salt is good; but if even the salt becomes tasteless, with what will its saltiness be restored? It is fit neither for the land nor for the manure pile, they will throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. (Luke 14:34,35)

To not be fit for the land means to not be fit for the normal church life which is God's farm (1 Cor. 3:9).

To not be good for the manure pile is to not be qualified for eternal damnation, the second death as the filthy place in the universe.

Neither good for the land or the manure pile must mean no good for the church's testimony or the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8;22:15)

They will be thrown out temporarily from the kingdom of God, especially from the glory of the kingdom in the thousand year millennial kingdom.

They are saved from eternal perdition, but because they have failed to renounce the earthly things to be the salt of the earth and lost their function in the kingdom of God. Being unfit for the kingdom will cause some believers to be put aside for discipline at the judgment seat of Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
KJ said he believes in something so Im asking him to expand .. and to do it away from the FMF and other controversies he has in the other threads.

OK. I undertake to post only once on this thread.

Originally posted by FMF
OK. I undertake to post only once on this thread.

🙂

Rajk999,

Don't you consider the book of Romans WAY too long ?
I mean couldn't this epistle be just be, say a half a chapter, instead of 16 chapters !!! And he expects us to read ALL that stuff.

When you start reading Romans, tell me the truth, don't you get weary of reading after say "But glory and honor and peace to everyone who works good, both to Jews first and to Greek" (chapter 2:10)

I mean REALLY !! What else can Paul say after that?

Originally posted by sonship
Rajk999,

Don't you consider the book of Romans WAY too long ?
I mean couldn't this epistle be just be, say a half a chapter, instead of [b]16 chapters !!! And he expects us to read ALL that stuff.

When you start reading Romans, tell me the truth, don't you get weary of reading after say "But glory and honor and peace to everyone ...[text shortened]... first and to Greek" (chapter 2:10)

I mean REALLY !! What else can Paul say after that?[/b]

I think you misunderstand me so let me clear it up.

I find YOUR POSTS way too long. YOURS and YOURS ONLY.

I also told you the reason :

YOUR POSTS MAKE NO SENSE. IF THEY WERE LONG AND SENSIBLE POSTS I WOULD READ THEM. YOUR CONCLUSIONS DO NOT FOLLOW FROM YOUR ARGUMENTS.

Maybe its not only your fault. I have to accept some of the blame because I have no patience when reading foolishness. The first sign that your statements are going amiss I stop reading.

That does not happen when Im reading the Bible because the words of Christ and Paul make perfect sense and everything follows nicely. There is nothing to fault in their writings.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think you misunderstand me so let me clear it up.

I find YOUR POSTS way too long. YOURS and YOURS ONLY.

I also told you the reason :

YOUR POSTS MAKE NO SENSE. IF THEY WERE LONG AND SENSIBLE POSTS I WOULD READ THEM. YOUR CONCLUSIONS DO NOT FOLLOW FROM YOUR ARGUMENTS.

Maybe you do not understand them because of a carnal and spiritually immature natural mind which smothers your ability to discern truly spiritual matters.

"But a soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." ( 1 Cor. 2:14)

Maybe when I even just quote to you Ephesians 2:8 about "by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works ..." you think "FOOLISHNESS".

Have you ever gone to God and said "God maybe I am just UNABLE to understand this kind of talk" ?

Originally posted by sonship
Maybe you do not understand them because of a carnal and spiritually immature natural mind which smothers your ability to discern truly spiritual matters.

[b]"But a soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." ( 1 Cor. 2:14)

...[text shortened]... ave you ever gone to God and said "God maybe I am just UNABLE to understand this kind of talk" ?[/b]

Yep .. thats it. Thats the reason why I have to write such long analyses to explain doctrines which are totally opposite to what Christ and the Apostles preached. You are correct. I dont accept the teachings in the Bible the way it is .. it needs to be explained.

Christ says to love you neighbour and do good works .. I say NO .. faith alone, good works is an insult to the sacrifice to Christ.

Christ gave a story of the Good Samaritan demonstrating how important good works are. I say NO .. that does not apply to us. Christ is really speaking of himself and he giving his life for us.

Christ says he will divide the sheep [those who do good works] from the goats [those who did nothing], sheep get eternal life, goats get death. I say NO .. that applies to nations only .. not Christians.

James says faith without works is dead. I say NO .. he cannot mean that one will lose his salvation [ and I can explain why too]

Paul says if you sin excessively you will lose your eternal life. . I say NO .. not possible.

Yep .. I cannot discern ....

Originally posted by Rajk999

Yep .. thats it. Thats the reason why I have to write such long analyses to explain doctrines which are totally opposite to what Christ and the Apostles preached. You are correct. I dont accept the teachings in the Bible the way it is .. it needs to be explained.

I don't know what you think sarcasm will do for your case.

You diametrically oppose Ephesians 2:8,9 as far as I can see.
Where the Apostle says "not of works" your are the one who argues "YES ... of works. Saved of works and not as a gift."

What will sarcasm do for you? Nothing. Notice that Paul used the past tense "SAVED". "By grace you have BEEN SAVED."

Why react with mocking or ridicule if a Christians says "Praise God. I have BEEN SAVED."? She is just standing on the promise of God's word.

Christ says to love you neighbour and do good works .. I say NO .. faith alone, good works is an insult to the sacrifice to Christ.

Twisted sarcasm confuses the issue.

Christ gave a story of the Good Samaritan demonstrating how important good works are. I say NO .. that does not apply to us. Christ is really speaking of himself and he giving his life for us.

Open your head for a moment.

Paul said in the Ephesian passage - "Not of works that no one should boast. FOR we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order that we should walk in them."

Obviously, the "good works" that God has prepared that the Christians should WALK in them are important.

Nevertheless, they are not SAVED in the doing of those works. For He said "SAVED through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; NOT OF WORKS ..."

Can good works be IMPORTANT but not the means of one being SAVED ?
Or is everything important to God the means of one being SAVED?

See if you can answer without the need for much sarcasm. We're trying to get at the truth here.

Christ says he will divide the sheep [those who do good works] from the goats [those who did nothing], sheep get eternal life, goats get death. I say NO .. that applies to nations only .. not Christians.

The twisting of your sarcasm is obfuscating to me.
But this I will acknowledge - the reference to Matthew 25:31-46 is a bit problematic. Those sheep saved DO appear to be saved from eternal punishment by the good things they DID to some people.

However, the people they treated well were of a THIRD category - not sheep, not goats but "the least of these my brothers"

Though we can discuss that, the more pertinent issue now is Ephesians 3:8-10)

Is that teaching to the church in Ephesis of salvation through good works or salvation through faith with good works being prepared for those who are saved?

Further sarcasm clouds the issue. (I may have done some).
But basically you seem not to discern the simple truth of Ephesians 22:8-10.

Originally posted by sonship

Yep .. thats it. Thats the reason why I have to write such long analyses to explain doctrines which are totally opposite to what Christ and the Apostles preached. You are correct. I dont accept the teachings in the Bible the way it is .. it needs to be explained.

I don't know what you think sarcasm will do for your case.

You diametri ...[text shortened]... have done some).
But basically you seem not to discern the simple truth of Ephesians 22:8-10.

Sorry I did not read that .. the garbage around the 10th line caused me to scroll to the end.

Yes I seem not to discern the simple truth of Ephesians.
You seem not to discern the simple truth of Christ.

I dont want to be in your shoes.