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    01 May '12 09:00
    if simple celled organisms are found within our solar system (not including earth) would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution or would you attribute the find to god?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    01 May '12 11:35
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    if simple celled organisms are found within our solar system (not including earth) would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution or would you attribute the find to god?
    Christians believe that God made the entire universe. So wherever you find life, God created it. No life has been found on Mars.
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    01 May '12 12:092 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    if simple celled organisms are found within our solar system (not including earth) would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution or would you attribute the find to god?
    would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution


    well, if they did, then either they don't understand the concept of 'proof' or they don't know what evolution is.
    There is already proof of evolution but finding life on Mars would not be proof of evolution but rather, providing you are rational enough to exclude stupid superstition, you should then regard that finding of life on Mars as very strong evidence that abiogenesis is common throughout the universe ( and abiogenesis is NOT evolution ) .
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    01 May '12 12:25
    Originally posted by humy
    would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution


    well, if they did, then either they don't understand the concept of 'proof' or they don't know what evolution is.
    There is already proof of evolution but finding life on Mars would not be proof of evolution but rather, providing you are rational enough to exclude stupid su ...[text shortened]... ce that abiogenesis is common throughout the universe ( and abiogenesis is NOT evolution ) .
    And of course there would be the usual quibbling with christians but my main question about life on Mars, if it is found, would be about DNA. Would such life be DNA based?
    If so it would give a big message that life on Earth and Mars came from the same source, such as life starting first on Mars, then meteorites from Mars hitting Earth and seeding life here, or vice versa. Or life from the same source, Ala Linus Pauling and his cosmic cloud theory of the origin of life.

    Then a hundred or 2 hundred years from now, perhaps we find life on Europa or some other moon of Jupiter or Saturn, and THAT with DNA but no possibility of meteorites seeding them, it would pretty much prove Dr. Pauling correct.

    And of course I fully acknowledge all this to be pure speculation at this point in time.
  5. Cape Town
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    01 May '12 13:28
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Christians believe that God made the entire universe. So wherever you find life, God created it.
    That doesn't logically follow. Why could not God have created a universe in which life could arise via its own internal laws? Or by 'God created it' do you include objects like rocks or computers that have come about via things that God created rather than via direct creation?
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    01 May '12 13:451 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    That doesn't logically follow. Why could not God have created a universe in which life could arise via its own internal laws? Or by 'God created it' do you include objects like rocks or computers that have come about via things that God created rather than via direct creation?
    'Logically follow' does not have any bearing on beliefs of religion. Religion could be entirely illogical and still be right.

    Im saying that Christians would believe that God created all life no matter where it arose and regardless of how illogical it might sound. Certainly God could have created life to arise via its own internal laws. Christians do not know for sure how God went about creating life. If there are internal laws which govern the creation of life then God created those laws. Thats entirely possible. Scientists have discovered the building blocks of life the air, in space, in comets., moving all over the universe. Life, death, creation is a constant thing and if thats the case then thats the way God designed the universe.

    Do not confuse Christianity with 'Creationists' who are a specific group who believe that the creation was 6, 24 Hr consecutive time periods and that the earth and the universe is just 6000 yrs old. That is a totally nonsense interpretation of the Bible account of the creation.

    I believe that evolution exists as I have seen it in action myself in the form of adaptation. However I would not say because evolution exist then creation is nonsense. Both are entirely compatible and not necessarily mutually exclusive.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    01 May '12 14:40
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    'Logically follow' does not have any bearing on beliefs of religion. Religion could be entirely illogical and still be right.

    Im saying that Christians would believe that God created all life no matter where it arose and regardless of how illogical it might sound. Certainly God could have created life to arise via its own internal laws. Christians do n ...[text shortened]... n creation is nonsense. Both are entirely compatible and not necessarily mutually exclusive.
    So you think evolution and the beginnings of life are the same issue? It is not by a long shot. Sure, creation can be made by a god, maybe the whole universe was made by a god like the result of a cosmic high school physics experiment where you arrange things that would allow life to form. That is just as believable as a god creating life after the universe was made or however it got here.


    Evolution is the study of what happened AFTER life was already here. It has NOTHING to say about the genesis of life. So in that regard, if religious people can accept that, then there is no issue.

    At least till we prove how life got started on Earth or Mars or wherever, which might happen in a hundred years or a thousand but personally I think that will happen.

    And of course that is just my speculation, my expectation, based on nothing more than what science has already achieved.
  8. Cape Town
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    01 May '12 16:00
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    'Logically follow' does not have any bearing on beliefs of religion. Religion could be entirely illogical and still be right.
    Actually, no. Something illogical cannot be right.
    Further, the way you stated it initially was as if you were making a logical deduction (your use of the word 'so' implies sentence one follows logically from sentence two).
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    01 May '12 16:16
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    if simple celled organisms are found within our solar system (not including earth) would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution or would you attribute the find to god?
    You will not need to worry about that. Bur if we did find one, I would say it hitched a ride. God only made single celled organisms for life on earth.
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    01 May '12 20:452 edits
    I have read that microscopic organisms can float to the highest atmospheres on earth. Then solar winds can blow them out through space. And they could be blown on to other outer planets.

    This possibility should be considered also if and when indications of microscopic fossils are found on mars.

    It is possible that they came from earth being blown off there from earth's upper atmosphere.
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    01 May '12 21:06
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I have read that microscopic organisms can float to the highest atmospheres on earth. Then solar winds can blow them out through space. And they could be blown on to other outer planets.

    This possibility should be considered also if and when indications of microscopic fossils are found on mars.

    It is possible that they came from earth being blown off there from earth's upper atmosphere.
    no,not possible. nothing to give the organism lift in the stratosphere, unless somebody strapped a rocket to it. re-entry would be impossible also and surviving in space would be another huge problem. sounds like a good sci fi film though.
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    01 May '12 21:10
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    if simple celled organisms are found within our solar system (not including earth) would the christians on this site accept this as proof of evolution or would you attribute the find to god?
    I'm not convinced single celled organisms or any life, can exist outside of an established eccosystem.
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    01 May '12 21:161 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    no,not possible. nothing to give the organism lift in the stratosphere, unless somebody strapped a rocket to it. re-entry would be impossible also and surviving in space would be another huge problem. sounds like a good sci fi film though.
    How are you so quick to be sure that it is impossible ?
    No, no, no ?

    Do you know what secondary meteorites are ? That is rocks thrown up so high by the impact of meteorites on earth, that some of the debris from earth becomes space traveling meteorites. If not recently happened, it may have occured in prehistoric times.


    There are a number of ways things from earth could be blown out to space and land on another planet.

    I take you negation as knee jerk skepticism on general principle.
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    02 May '12 10:115 edits
    Originally posted by jaywill
    How are you so quick to be sure that it is impossible ?
    No, no, no ?

    Do you know what secondary meteorites are ? That is rocks thrown up so high by the impact of meteorites on earth, that some of the debris from earth becomes space traveling meteorites. If not recently happened, it may have occured in prehistoric times.


    There are a number of ...[text shortened]... d land on another planet.

    I take you negation as knee jerk skepticism on general principle.
    How are you so quick to be sure that it is impossible ?


    I can answer for him:
    you said:
    I have read that microscopic organisms can float to the highest atmospheres on earth. Then solar winds can blow them out through space.


    well, what you read is false because it is physically impossible because the solar wind can only blow stuff away once it has reached the ionosphere and there is a fuzzy-size-limit to how large a particle can be before it can spontaneously float up there against gravity with that size-limit being at most roughly the size of binary-nitrogen gas molecule if not a lot less than that. In fact, virtually the only thing blown away from the solar wind from earth even in an intense solar storm is ionised hydrogen mixed with much smaller amounts of ionised helium. That's because nothing much heavier than helium can physically easily get up that high. Obviously, a life form cannot consist of, say, just one or two atoms!
    Certainly nothing as large as a organic cell or spore could physically spontaneously float up that high without defying the law of gravity.
    ( this means that the idea of parasitic spores being spread by the solar wind as in the “invasion of the body snatchers” is reassuringly physically absurd )

    As for the idea of life been transported via secondary meteorites, I personally think this is physically possible but unlikely for I would image that the sterilising heat of the impact needed to send the lump of rock up into space then the exposure to the slowly sterilizing solar ionising radiation and vacuum in space and then the sterilising heat of re-entry as well as the final impact makes it rather improbable ( but not impossible ) that a microbe would survive. But I am not an expert on this so I could be wrong about that part.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    02 May '12 13:02
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    And of course there would be the usual quibbling with christians but my main question about life on Mars, if it is found, would be about DNA. Would such life be DNA based?
    If so it would give a big message that life on Earth and Mars came from the same source, such as life starting first on Mars, then meteorites from Mars hitting Earth and seeding life her ...[text shortened]... ect.

    And of course I fully acknowledge all this to be pure speculation at this point in time.
    God created everything in the entire universe and He made everything just right on Earth to support the life forms He created. So forget about finding physical DNA based life on any distant planet.
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