Originally posted by googlefudge
I second this.

While the idea of giving animals the same rights as humans is ridiculous, (the right to vote
being one that strikes me as being absurd) we should still recognise that there are animals
with intellects that overlap with the range of human intellects.
And that there are animals that have emotions and feelings like we do.

And thus ...[text shortened]... t, but the idea that there is some
magical distinction between 'us and them' is just wrong.

Although we can all agree that animals cannot be afforded the right to vote, for obvious reasons, what about the right to life? Should animals be killed for our consumption?

Originally posted by whodey
You tell me.

i dont believe in souls. do you?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i dont believe in souls. do you?

Maybe you should read the biblical defintion for the soul before you make
your decision to believe or not believe.

http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat&id=336

Originally posted by whodey
Although we can all agree that animals cannot be afforded the right to vote, for obvious reasons, what about the right to life? Should animals be killed for our consumption?

The post you just quoted answers your question.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Maybe you should read the biblical defintion for the soul before you make
your decision to believe or not believe.

http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat&id=336

its not really a definition because it is so vague after reading the article it seems what i thought the soul was is actually the spirit and i have no idea what the soul is. can you shed some of your biblical wisdom rj.

how come all the years of being dragged to church as a child the word "soul" is used to described the part of a human that lives on after death? or are most christians getting it wrong?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i dont believe in souls. do you?

I do, but what does it matter what I believe?

I have tried to ascertain why people seem to think it is OK to kill animals and eat them as well as use them as slave labor. To date, the only answers I have been given is that animals are "different" than us. However, you can use the same reasoning to treat other human beings the same based upon their different race, religion, intellect etc.

Originally posted by whodey
I have tried to ascertain why people seem to think it is OK to kill animals and eat them as well as use them as slave labor. To date, the only answers I have been given is that animals are "different" than us. However, you can use the same reasoning to treat other human beings the same based upon their different race, religion, intellect etc.

I think intellect is key. If there was a chimpanzee that talked and acted as intelligent as a human, I would readily grant them equal status as humans.
Equally, I think people who accept slavery and extreme racism, tend to try and justify their stance by believing that the slave (or other race) is lacking in intelligence.

I have always wondered what will happen when the first concious computers gain as good as or greater intelligence than us. Will we grant them rights? Will they grant us rights?

Originally posted by whodey
I do, but what does it matter what I believe?

I have tried to ascertain why people seem to think it is OK to kill animals and eat them as well as use them as slave labor. To date, the only answers I have been given is that animals are "different" than us. However, you can use the same reasoning to treat other human beings the same based upon their different race, religion, intellect etc.

your opinion matters, you asked the initial question and you asked it on the spirituality forum, which indicates your feelings on the matter are religious. why direct the question at atheists?

you might get vague answers from atheists because you asked them to answer the question leaving out one of the main areas of discussion "intelligence".

where do your clothes come from? where did the silicon in your computer come from? where did your food come from? just because we cant see our slaves anymore doesnt mean they dont exist. lots of christians and atheist seem morally okay having human slaves out of view these days, thats why you are going to find some similarities in the type of reasoning you get. its a very morally ambiguous world out there for atheists,christians and everybody else and we all excuse and justify it in our own individual ways. doesnt make it right though.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
where do your clothes come from? where did the silicon in your computer come from? where did your food come from? just because we cant see our slaves anymore doesnt mean they dont exist. lots of christians and atheist seem morally okay having human slaves out of view these days, thats why you are going to find some similarities in the type of reasoning ...[text shortened]... y else and we all excuse and justify it in our own individual ways. doesnt make it right though.

Very true. With the events unfolding in Syria, I have been thinking more and more about how the system of countries is so outdated and immoral. From the very basics, where the country you are born in, dictates your whole life including education, health, wealth etc, to the political situations where people are being massacred, but we feel we have no 'right' to help them because they are part of a different country in which some dictators 'rights' are given more respect.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think intellect is key. If there was a chimpanzee that talked and acted as intelligent as a human, I would readily grant them equal status as humans.
Equally, I think people who accept slavery and extreme racism, tend to try and justify their stance by believing that the slave (or other race) is lacking in intelligence.

I have always wondered what w ...[text shortened]... s good as or greater intelligence than us. Will we grant them rights? Will they grant us rights?

So really its a matter of being smart enough to exploit others who do not have the intellect you do to stop you from exploiting them.

Interesting. Might makes right perhaps? 😛

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think intellect is key. If there was a chimpanzee that talked and acted as intelligent as a human, I would readily grant them equal status as humans.
Equally, I think people who accept slavery and extreme racism, tend to try and justify their stance by believing that the slave (or other race) is lacking in intelligence.

I have always wondered what w ...[text shortened]... s good as or greater intelligence than us. Will we grant them rights? Will they grant us rights?

If computers became more intelligent then humans, they would probably think of it as being necessary that we be controlled or managed. They would not want us eliminated because we provide the technology for them. In our absence, they would die too, not having an infrastructure to keep themselves going. For instance, they kill all humans, who will run the electric generators that keeps them conscious?

Originally posted by sonhouse
If computers became more intelligent then humans, they would probably think of it as being necessary that we be controlled or managed. They would not want us eliminated because we provide the technology for them. In our absence, they would die too, not having an infrastructure to keep themselves going. For instance, they kill all humans, who will run the electric generators that keeps them conscious?

So we have all accepted that survival, no matter the species, involves exploiting and using the weak for our own device?

Originally posted by whodey
So we have all accepted that survival, no matter the species, involves exploiting and using the weak for our own device?

Pretty much. There still is altruism in a lot of animals including people.

Originally posted by whodey
So really its a matter of being smart enough to exploit others who do not have the intellect you do to stop you from exploiting them.

Interesting. Might makes right perhaps? 😛

No, its not about exploiting others, its about how much you value them and them suffering. And no, its not about might, either.

Originally posted by sonhouse
If computers became more intelligent then humans, they would probably think of it as being necessary that we be controlled or managed. They would not want us eliminated because we provide the technology for them. In our absence, they would die too, not having an infrastructure to keep themselves going. For instance, they kill all humans, who will run the electric generators that keeps them conscious?

A super intelligent computer would figure that out quite quick and develop robots that could do all the maintenance.