Originally posted by josephwWell there must have been a compromise. For a start, we could not have so many children without death - unless Adams descendants were destined to be space farers.
According to the story Adam should have lived without fear of death or disease or hunger or threat.
Do you think we're better off now than Adam was then?
But I suppose if you can't die, then space travel gets a whole lot easier.
The real question is what Adam got from the forbidden fruit. It must have been something quite substantial. I can only assume that he was an idiot before that and that we are better off now.
Of course the fact that God did not want Adam to eat the fruit means we are either worse off, or God did not have our best interests in mind.
Originally posted by twhiteheadFascinating set of statements sir. I would love to do them justice in reply.
Well there must have been a compromise. For a start, we could not have so many children without death - unless Adams descendants were destined to be space farers.
But I suppose if you can't die, then space travel gets a whole lot easier.
The real question is what Adam got from the forbidden fruit. It must have been something quite substantial. I can o ...[text shortened]... to eat the fruit means we are either worse off, or God did not have our best interests in mind.
Let me put it this way. Speculating about cause and effect will only generate more doubt.
If I were in your place, and didn't believe there was a God, then the only conclusion to anything concerning God would have to be pointless, other than how it effects the course of human events.
If I were in your place I might consider approaching the topic of God in this way.
"Since I don't believe in the existence of God because I don't see any evidence for Gods' existence, I might just as well find out the truth about God as if He did exist. Who is God? If God really exists, what is He? What does God have to be in order to be God? Where do I find the truth about God"?
The answer- From God.
It's logical.
The real subduing of the creation is the allowing of God to saturate you with His element so as to manifest the sons of God.
First we have to allow the Triune God to subdue us from within. Then we must allow Him to fill us, saturate us, mingle Himself thoroughly within our soul.
It is by this process of Christ growing within a group of people as the divine life, that the sons of God will be manifested at His second coming and the creation will be freed from its slavery to corruption.
Now here is the biblical support for such a view:
"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the coming glory to be revealed upon us.
For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it.
In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.
And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body.
For we were saved in hope. But a hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees?
But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly awaut it through endurance."
(See Romans 8:18-25)
The dispensing of the Triune God's Spirit in Christ into man, for his filling and saturation, is the key to the manifestation of the sons of God and the release of creation from vanity and bondage.
If you really care about the environment you should turn over your whole inner being to the Lord Jesus. He is gentle and gradually will fill you up - spirit and soul and body. And your salvation will be the salvation of your world that God created for you.