Memo to My Atheist Friends

Memo to My Atheist Friends

If your last days are spent in a hospital, hospice or at home is it likely that you'll remember and/or ponder again for the first time information you've received on this forum regarding "the supernatural... and the life after" as you're dying? -Bob

How can I "ponder again for the first time"?

I don't think fear of death is going to change most of our minds.

Originally posted by DeepThought
How can I "ponder again for the first time"?

I don't think fear of death is going to change most of our minds.

News flash:

Fear of death is not the prime motivation for seeking a higher truth.

Often a greater motivation is the fear of being alone.


Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence.

In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence.

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence.

"Fools", said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed
In the wells of silence.

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls"
And whispered in the sounds of silence.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Fear of death is not the prime motivation for seeking a higher truth.

Often a greater motivation is the fear of being alone.

Coming to terms with death certainly is a factor behind religiosity, at least according to my lifelong observations. We have the capacity to imagine that we might be immortal. Once this notion (or hope) takes hold, in many people, it takes on the feel of being some kind of self-generating "higher truth" that seems to deal with the question of death and the finiteness of life. This is what religions package and offer their adherents. At the root of it all is the disconcerting inevitability of death. For religious people, believing that it isn't final seems to overcome, in their minds, the finality of it. I believe this is a natural and very common aspect of the human condition.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I do not believe that a belief in an afterlife is merely the result of a "lack of scientific knowledge". Many with scientific knowledge still believe in an afterlife, and there are many who do not believe in an afterlife who do not posess scientific knowledge. Knowledge and faith are not polar opposites. You can have one, both, or neither.

And yet a lack of belief in an afterlife IS a result of a lack of faith.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
If your last days are spent in a hospital, hospice or at home is it likely that you'll remember and/or ponder again for the first time information you've received on this forum regarding "the supernatural... and the life after" as you're dying? -Bob

I will let atheists address your question for themselves. But as for myself, I would say that the "information [I've] received on this forum regarding 'the supernatural... and the life after'" from Christians ~ and the behaviour/demeanour of many of the Christians as they've sought to impart this purported "knowledge" ~ confirms, reconfirms, and reconfirms, again and again, day after day, the validity of me becoming an ex-Christian and now being a non-Christian. As I have said before, several of the prominent proselytizing Christians on this forum are like lighthouses warning spiritually curious people away from the treacherous religionist rocks they sit atop.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Knowledge and faith are not polar opposites. You can have one, both, or neither. And yet a lack of belief in an afterlife IS a result of a lack of faith.

Is there some knowledge that you have that prevents you from believing in the kind of reincarnation that Dasa preaches about? Why do you have a "lack of faith" in his particular version of the "afterlife"?

Originally posted by FMF
Coming to terms with death certainly is a factor behind religiosity, at least according to my lifelong observations. We have the capacity to imagine that we might be immortal. Once this notion (or hope) takes hold, in many people, it takes on the feel of being some kind of self-generating "higher truth" that seems to deal with the question of death and the finit ...[text shortened]... , the finality of it. I believe this is a natural and very common aspect of the human condition.

If you have to categorize every single aspect of life into little labeled boxes, you're certainly free to categorize a belief in God any way you choose. Meaning you can belittle anyone's faith if you so desire. Fortunately, this does not diminish that person's faith, nor does it invalidate it, regardless of how you sort your little boxes.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." -- John 3:16, KJV

While this IS the "good news" of the Gospel, a far better truth can be found in this verse:

"... I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." -- John 10:10, KJV

A "more abundant" life is the promise of Christ. If you understood the "joy of life" doctrine, you might not be so quick to invoke the "fear of death" doctrine. The first is a celebration, the second only a repudiation. Don't be so quick to judge.

Originally posted by Suzianne
If you have to categorize every single aspect of life into little labeled boxes, you're certainly free to categorize a belief in God any way you choose. Meaning you can belittle anyone's faith if you so desire. Fortunately, this does not diminish that person's faith, nor does it invalidate it, regardless of how you sort your little boxes.

I'm sure you do not actually feel "belittled" by me disagreeing with you and by me perceiving things in a different way from you. I'm also sure your faith is not "diminished" by hearing dissenting opinions and analysis. So I wonder who it is you think you are referring to when when you talk, as you often do, about this belittling and diminishing.

Originally posted by FMF
Is there some knowledge that you have that prevents you from believing in the kind of reincarnation that Dasa preaches about? Why do you have a "lack of faith" in his particular version of the "afterlife"?

Only the Word of God:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" -- Hebrews 9:27, KJV

My faith is in what God says, not what man says. Do you really expect me to have faith in Dasa over God? It's a real "no-brainer".

Originally posted by Suzianne
Only the Word of God:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" -- Hebrews 9:27, KJV

My faith is in what God says, not what man says. Do you really expect me to have faith in Dasa over God? It's a real "no-brainer".

Then isn't it also a "no-brainer" for people to believe differently from you if they don't accept your assertion that texts like "Hebrews 9:27" are "the Word of God". I didn't say anything about you "having faith in Dasa over God". Is there some knowledge that you have that prevents you from believing that the Vedas are, for all intents and purposes, "the Word of God" in the same way and for the same reasons as "Hebrews 9:27 etc." is?

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Ignorance is a remarkably flexible thing. It is not given solely to any one race, creed, color, gender, nationality or religion, but sprinkled among all humans. Yes, Americans could ignorantly assume the motivations of all Japanese kamikazes, just as Japanese could ignorantly assume that all Americans assumed this.

Faith, regardless of flavor, is no hamper to scientific knowledge, and vice versa.