Meta-narrative

@fmf said
No I don't. If you feel YOU must, then that's OK. Neither of us knows how the universe started. I acknowledge this; you don't. There is no onus on me to provide some specilation that competes with the speculation you have settled for.

So you are willfully closing your eyes to the questions, and speak about it as if you
know?

@fmf said
Maybe you will "know" after you die. I don't think either of us will.

You do not know now what we can know, later is without a doubt beyond you.

@kellyjay said
You do not know now what we can know, later is without a doubt beyond you.

We can only speculate about these things. You claiming you "know" that the things you imagine are "the truth" does not lift them up and out the realm of subjectivity.

@kellyjay said
So you are willfully closing your eyes to the questions, and speak about it as if you
know?

Not at all. Don't be so disingenuous.

@kellyjay said
So you are willfully closing your eyes to the questions, and speak about it as if you
know?

You speak about your own immortality and my "damnation" as if you "know".

@fmf said
We can only speculate about these things. You claiming you "know" that the things you imagine are "the truth" does not lift them up and out the realm of subjectivity.

We can speculate, duh, that is not a question, but we can come to a conclusion
for cause.

@fmf said
Not at all. Don't be so disingenuous.

Are you interested in the whole or only bits and pieces of the whole?

@fmf said
You speak about your own immortality and my "damnation" as if you "know".

I'm not bringing up hell here, only you have todate.

@kellyjay said
We can speculate, duh, that is not a question, but we can come to a conclusion
for cause.

It's still just speculation and subjectivity, KellyJay.

@kellyjay said
I'm not bringing up hell here, only you have todate.

Your belief in your own immortality and my "damnation" is an indicator of what is "reasonable" and "logical" for you to claim you "know". Don't run away from the interpersonal and intellectual consequences of your faith.

@kellyjay said
Are you interested in the whole or only bits and pieces of the whole?

"The whole" of what?

You arrive at your personal, subjective and speculative "whole" using GOD DID IT. I am only "interested" in that in so far as I am willing to listen to you earnestly going on and on about it.

@fmf said
It's still just speculation and subjectivity, KellyJay.

Some things, yes, others not so much; if God's word is true, we can know him
personally, which is different than having a good opinion of God.

@kellyjay said
Some things, yes, others not so much; if God's word is true, we can know him
personally, which is different than having a good opinion of God.

IF

@fmf said
IF

The thing is we are not talking about opinions with respect to God entering our lives. Opinions versus experiences are two different things one a change of mind alters it all, the other happen or not. A godless religious set of beliefs can be the same as someone who has God, the difference is God, not the beliefs about Him.

A divine experience is not something we can generate by our efforts no matter how much we want it, only God can cause anyone to be born again. We had no say in our first birth neither our second we cannot force God into making us new creatures in Christ we can only go asking for His mercy and grace due to what Jesus did.

@kellyjay said
The thing is we are not talking about opinions with respect to God entering our lives.

Yes you are, except metaphorically.