1. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    29 Apr '06 14:456 edits
    One of the great political issues in the United States concerns the large number of people who cross the border from Mexico and enter the United States, remaining here illegally to live and work.

    In contrast, while some Canadians do the same, the absolute and relative numbers that do are much smaller.

    Consider that most Mexicans speak Spanish and look much different than the typical American. Consider that most Canadians speak English and look much the same as the typical American.

    My question is this. Suppose most Mexicans spoke English and were white, like Canadians, but still illegally entered the United States in the same large numbers. Would it still be such a big issue? Would illegal immigration activists, on both sides of the issue, still be so passionate about their stances? Would the Minute Men have formed in order to keep white, English speaking neighbors from entering the country illegally?

    May God bless this discussion, and if it be his will, make it a fruitful one.

    Dr. S
  2. Donationkirksey957
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    29 Apr '06 20:22
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    One of the great political issues in the United States concerns the large number of people who cross the border from Mexico and enter the United States, remaining here illegally to live and work.

    In contrast, while some Canadians do the same, the absolute and relative numbers that do are much smaller.

    Consider that most Mexicans speak Spanish ...[text shortened]... gally?

    May God bless this discussion, and if it be his will, make it a fruitful one.

    Dr. S
    While this is seemingly a "debate forum" topic, it ultimately may be a spiritual issue as it concerns welcoming the stranger, care for the least fortunate, and our capacity to look beyond skin color and language.

    I like Mexicans. They work their asses off. I think they are doing all the roofing, landscaping and farm work in this country. At least their doing something. Canadians, on the other hand, are always complaining about the US.

    Tell us about living in the AZ and what it's like there. How are the refried beans?
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    29 Apr '06 22:03
    Originally posted by kirksey957


    Tell us about living in the AZ and what it's like there. How are the refried beans?
    34% of Phoenix residents are hispanic, the great majority of which come from families that have lived here since Arizona was Mexican territory or that have since immigrated, illegally or otherwise. You can stand on nearly any street corner and hear passers by conversing in Spanish within five minutes of arriving. There is an abundance of Mexican restaurants serving tasty refired beans and other fare. The staff at any restaurant or retail store are bilingual. When I go to my local bank, most tellers have a little placard at their station reading "Hablo espanol." About 25% of advertising billboards are in Spanish. Numerous spots around town are crowded every morning with Mexicans seeking day labor. My house was built mostly by Mexicans. My housekeepers are Mexican. There are a couple Mexicans that play at my local chess club. I volunteer as a GED tutor at a local shelter and the Mexican students work their asses off learning English, and most have a conversational command of the language at least as good as the average white or black kid working at McDonald's.

    Here is one interesting observation: Although Phoenix doesn't have a large visible homeless population, those that I do come across on the streets are nearly all white or black - I rarely see any homeless Hispanics on the streets. Would anybody care to posit an explanation for this?

    Every summer, dozens and dozens of people die in the desert while trying to sneak in from Mexico. Arizona ranks among the worst states for auto theft, and the correspondingly high insurance rates, due to Mexicans stealing cars and taking them across the border. The police regularly conduct drug raids that seize mind-blowing quantities of drugs smuggled up from Mexico. But even taking all of these negatives into consideration, the city is still one of my favorites and I have no desire to leave, and especially not on account of the influx of Mexicans, illegal or otherwise.

    If the Mexicans aren't ruining Phoenix, I don't see them ruining the country anytime soon.
  4. Donationkirksey957
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    30 Apr '06 00:23
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    34% of Phoenix residents are hispanic, the great majority of which come from families that have lived here since Arizona was Mexican territory or that have since immigrated, illegally or otherwise. You can stand on nearly any street corner and hear passers by conversing in Spanish within five minutes of arriving. There is an abundance of Mexican re ...[text shortened]... If the Mexicans aren't ruining Phoenix, I don't see them ruining the country anytime soon.
    RWillis is not going to be happy knowing that you have Mexican housekeepers. Please tell me they are illegal and that you pay them a dollar an hour.
  5. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    30 Apr '06 01:04
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    RWillis is not going to be happy knowing that you have Mexican housekeepers. Please tell me they are illegal and that you pay them a dollar an hour.
    I have no idea if they are illegal. I pay their company $100 for two of them to come for two hours. That's $25 per man-hour that the company is taking in. Even if the company keeps 50% of that, the cleaners are still making about twice minimum wage, my toilets are clean, and everybody is happy.
  6. Standard memberchancremechanic
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    30 Apr '06 08:20
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    One of the great political issues in the United States concerns the large number of people who cross the border from Mexico and enter the United States, remaining here illegally to live and work.

    In contrast, while some Canadians do the same, the absolute and relative numbers that do are much smaller.

    Consider that most Mexicans speak Spanish ...[text shortened]... gally?

    May God bless this discussion, and if it be his will, make it a fruitful one.

    Dr. S
    I would have a problem with illegal immigration whether they were brown, black, WHITE, yellow, or polka-dotted....they break the law, plain and simple. That said, as the son of an immigrant, I am not against LEGAL immigration as long as it's controlled enough to allow those that enter to learn English and assimilate as Americans, not hyphenated-Americans.
  7. Belfast
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    30 Apr '06 11:43
    Originally posted by chancremechanic
    I would have a problem with illegal immigration whether they were brown, black, WHITE, yellow, or polka-dotted....they break the law, plain and simple. That said, as the son of an immigrant, I am not against LEGAL immigration as long as it's controlled enough to allow those that enter to learn English and assimilate as Americans, not hyphenated-Americans.
    Why do they have to learn to speak English? The last time I checked, Spanish was one of the official languages of the United States.

    So should English speakers have to learn to speak Spanish?
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    30 Apr '06 11:50
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    One of the great political issues in the United States concerns the large number of people who cross the border from Mexico and enter the United States, remaining here illegally to live and work.

    In contrast, while some Canadians do the same, the absolute and relative numbers that do are much smaller.

    Consider that most Mexicans speak Spanish ...[text shortened]... gally?

    May God bless this discussion, and if it be his will, make it a fruitful one.

    Dr. S
    If Mexico was still as poor a country then yes....If Canada was poor I'm sure the USA would tighten up border patrols there too......I think its more to do with economics than racial predjudice.....Although that obviously still exists in every country.........
  9. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    30 Apr '06 12:11
    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    30 Apr '06 12:29
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I have no idea if they are illegal. I pay their company $100 for two of them to come for two hours. That's $25 per man-hour that the company is taking in. Even if the company keeps 50% of that, the cleaners are still making about twice minimum wage, my toilets are clean, and everybody is happy.
    What part of Phoenix do you live? We are ex-Scottsdaleians, used to live near what was the Los Arcos mall, now long since gone, very close to 'hole in the rock'. You know where that is of course.
    Our favorite place to eat was up towards the mountains at
    Pinnacle Peak Patio, ever been there? Where they cut off your tie and hang it up on the wall, and serve you a boot if you ask for your steak well done, and they have faux gunfights? Great food and great fun.
    We played a concert at the Kerr Cultural center and produced Silly Wizard there also. They are a virtuoso folk music band from Scotland.
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    30 Apr '06 14:23
    Originally posted by chancremechanic
    I am not against LEGAL immigration as long as it's controlled enough to allow those that enter to learn English and assimilate as Americans, not hyphenated-Americans.
    What if they are deaf? Should they be denied legal immigration by virtue of not having learned to speak English?
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    30 Apr '06 14:30
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    What if they are deaf? Should they be denied legal immigration by virtue of not having learned to speak English?
    I wonder if Mexico would go for just being the 51'st state of the US.
    Seems like that would solve a lot of problems. Maybe. ~
  13. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    30 Apr '06 14:35
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me.
    But if they speak English not
    Then home they shall return
    For only those with proper tongue
    Does liberty's torch burn
  14. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    30 Apr '06 14:37
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I wonder if Mexico would go for just being the 51'st state of the US.
    Seems like that would solve a lot of problems. Maybe. ~
    I have proposed this before in these forums and was met with great mockery. I still think it is a good idea to pursue.
  15. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    30 Apr '06 14:43
    Originally posted by sonhouse

    Our favorite place to eat was up towards the mountains at
    Pinnacle Peak Patio, ever been there? Where they cut off your tie and hang it up on the wall, and serve you a boot if you ask for your steak well done, and they have faux gunfights?
    I'd rather be deported to Mexico than go to a fake gunfight.
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