1. Donationrwingett
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    04 Oct '09 12:53
    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/those-you-your-way-church-morning-note-michael-moore

    In this letter, Moore says basically the same thing that I've been saying in this forum for a while now: that Jesus was a de facto socialist. Capitalism is antithetical to what Jesus preached. You cannot serve both god and mammon.
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    04 Oct '09 13:161 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/those-you-your-way-church-morning-note-michael-moore

    In this letter, Moore says basically the same thing that I've been saying in this forum for a while now: that Jesus was a de facto socialist. Capitalism is antithetical to what Jesus preached. You cannot serve both god and mammon.
    Yes, capitalism goes against the very core of the teachings of Jesus.

    For that matter, from what I can tell, the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians is antithetical to what Jesus preached.

    Both capitalism and the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians are self-serving. Therein lies the attraction and the hypocrisy.
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    04 Oct '09 21:24
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/those-you-your-way-church-morning-note-michael-moore

    In this letter, Moore says basically the same thing that I've been saying in this forum for a while now: that Jesus was a de facto socialist. Capitalism is antithetical to what Jesus preached. You cannot serve both god and mammon.
    very amusing and quite well written, id love to see the movie. Of course it is apparent from scripture that Christ himself was a-political and that many of Gods servants were wealthy men, however, the example has been set. Paul himself although privileged, worked hard with his hands (he was a tent maker), so that he could be self sufficient, content with sustenance and covering and distribute something to those in need. Is this capitalistic?
  4. Standard memberknightmeister
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    04 Oct '09 21:38
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Yes, capitalism goes against the very core of the teachings of Jesus.

    For that matter, from what I can tell, the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians is antithetical to what Jesus preached.

    Both capitalism and the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians are self-serving. Therein lies the attraction and the hypocrisy.
    For that matter, from what I can tell, the beliefs of the vast majority of Christians is antithetical to what Jesus preached.
    -------------------------------ToOne--------------------------------------

    Would you be refering to John 8:32 by any chance? If so , then Jesus preached that we should ask God for forgiveness from sins daily in Matt 6:9.

    Therefore your whole contention about sin/Christianity/St Paul etc is in deep trouble and so is the statement above.

    What would be interesting to know is where the "minority" of Christians are in your opinion. I doubt you will want to discuss this though - you don't want to discuss things - you're on a crusade.
  5. Donationrwingett
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    04 Oct '09 21:50
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    very amusing and quite well written, id love to see the movie. Of course it is apparent from scripture that Christ himself was a-political and that many of Gods servants were wealthy men, however, the example has been set. Paul himself although privileged, worked hard with his hands (he was a tent maker), so that he could be self sufficient, content with sustenance and covering and distribute something to those in need. Is this capitalistic?
    The socialism of Jesus was apolitical.

    Paul, as you describe him, was not capitalistic.
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    04 Oct '09 21:551 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The socialism of Jesus was apolitical.

    Paul, as you describe him, was not capitalistic.
    It is incredibly interesting rwingett. We in the west live in a capitalistic society, do we not? I myself have a business and have been approached many times with persons seeking employment, but i prefer to simply work by myself, for i loathe the idea of making money from the sweat of others. Do you think this is socialist in nature?
  7. Donationrwingett
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    04 Oct '09 22:08
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    It is incredibly interesting rwingett. We in the west live in a capitalistic society, do we not? I myself have a business and have been approached many times with persons seeking employment, but i prefer to simply work by myself, for i loathe the idea of making money from the sweat of others. Do you think this is socialist in nature?
    Only partially. A willingness to throw the moneychangers out of the temple does not necessarily indicate that you are willing to be your brother's keeper.
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    05 Oct '09 04:541 edit
    I have a stupid question but what is wrong with capitalism? (wrong forum maybe?) I think capitalism has it flaws (Greed) but so does socialism. How about the story where Jesus says render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and to God what is God's. I do like the idea of taking care of ones fellow man however.






    Manny
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    05 Oct '09 15:58
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/those-you-your-way-church-morning-note-michael-moore

    In this letter, Moore says basically the same thing that I've been saying in this forum for a while now: that Jesus was a de facto socialist. Capitalism is antithetical to what Jesus preached. You cannot serve both god and mammon.
    Wow you base your whole life on what Michael Moore says? That's pretty shallow don't you think? What if he dies?
  10. Donationrwingett
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    05 Oct '09 16:52
    Originally posted by daniel58
    Wow you base your whole life on what Michael Moore says? That's pretty shallow don't you think? What if he dies?
    I don't base my whole life on what Michael Moore says. It is only a small fragment of my life. It just so happens that he is saying much the same thing as I have been saying for some time now. His wisdom is not mitigated by the fact that he is mortal.
  11. Standard memberPalynka
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    05 Oct '09 16:541 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/those-you-your-way-church-morning-note-michael-moore

    In this letter, Moore says basically the same thing that I've been saying in this forum for a while now: that Jesus was a de facto socialist. Capitalism is antithetical to what Jesus preached. You cannot serve both god and mammon.
    If God says Jesus was a socialist, then he must be.

    Edit - Of course, you jump the gun by assuming that non-capitalism* = socialism.

    *Capitalism in the Michael Moore sense.
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    05 Oct '09 17:07
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I don't base my whole life on what Michael Moore says. It is only a small fragment of my life. It just so happens that he is saying much the same thing as I have been saying for some time now. His wisdom is not mitigated by the fact that he is mortal.
    If only you based your life on someone who was already dead! Then you could just make things up, interpret their words any way you liked, and advocate genocide for anyone who disagreed with you. When are people going to accept responsibility for what they say, think, and do?
  13. Donationrwingett
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    05 Oct '09 17:09
    Originally posted by Palynka
    If God says Jesus was a socialist, then he must be.

    Edit - Of course, you jump the gun by assuming that non-capitalism* = socialism.

    *Capitalism in the Michael Moore sense.
    The capitalism that Moore is attacking is the laissez-faire, unregulated, Milton Friedman style of capitalism. He is actually quite comfortable with the New Deal, well regulated, Keynesian style of capitalism.

    There may be other options than capitalism and socialism, but for my own purposes I will stick to those two.
  14. Standard memberPalynka
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    05 Oct '09 17:22
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The capitalism that Moore is attacking is the laissez-faire, unregulated, Milton Friedman style of capitalism. He is actually quite comfortable with the New Deal, well regulated, Keynesian style of capitalism.

    There may be other options than capitalism and socialism, but for my own purposes I will stick to those two.
    In short, Jesus was a Keynesian for Michael Moore.
  15. Donationrwingett
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    05 Oct '09 17:30
    Originally posted by Palynka
    In short, Jesus was a Keynesian for Michael Moore.
    No, Moore is willing to settle for Keynesianism, but indicates that he thinks Jesus himself was a socialist. Read the letter.
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