Originally posted by whodey
No worries, you never see it.

Gene Kelly is the only one. 😛

Gene Kelly is the evilotionist[sic] in this analogy.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Sorry, but anyone who claims to hold secrets that they do not wish to disclose should simply shut up about them. I too can easily claim to have secret knowledge that I am not going to tell you, but what is the point if we cant discuss it? I think you are lying, but since its all a secret, I can't prove that and you can't disprove it.

I think you misunderstand my intent. I didn't say what I said to be taken as a rebuff.

I have no idea what "secret" you are referring to. Jesus Christ is no secret. It's no secret that He died for our sins and rose from the dead. It's no secret that one can have forgiveness and eternal life by simply believing in Jesus.

What secrets are you talking about?

Originally posted by josephw
What secrets are you talking about?

You whole post was about how I could not possibly know what you were talking about. Surely 'secret' is the right word?

Originally posted by twhitehead
You whole post was about how I could not possibly know what you were talking about. Surely 'secret' is the right word?

I don't know about Quantum mechanics, but that information would be available to me if i went looking for it. (It's not a secret). I guess that is what Joseph is saying. As 'non-Christians' we don't know what it is like to have Jesus in our lives, but such understanding would not be hidden from us if we sought it out.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I don't know about Quantum mechanics, but that information would be available to me if i went looking for it. (It's not a secret). I guess that is what Joseph is saying. As 'non-Christians' we don't know what it is like to have Jesus in our lives, but such understanding would not be hidden from us if we sought it out.

But you could know about Quantum mechanics without joining a religion surely? I am fairly sure that he was saying that I would have to convert to Christianity to understand. Also he seemed very sure that I could not understand despite him not knowing a whole lot about me. He also showed no interest in explaining it to me.
I am fairly sure he was playing the 'you don't know and can't know so don't question' game.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But you could know about Quantum mechanics without joining a religion surely? I am fairly sure that he was saying that I would have to convert to Christianity to understand. Also he seemed very sure that I could not understand despite him not knowing a whole lot about me. He also showed no interest in explaining it to me.
I am fairly sure he was playing the 'you don't know and can't know so don't question' game.

We can learn about parachute jumping from a book, but will never fully understand and appreciate what it is like to do a parachute jump, until we actually jump out of a plane. I think religion is very much like this. You probably would have to convert to Christianity to have a meaningful understanding of what it is to be a Christian.

Quantum mechanics, on the other hand, i could master in an afternoon. 🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Quantum mechanics, on the other hand, i could master in an afternoon. 🙂

Surely a long weekend to be fully au fait with all the ramifications?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Surely a long weekend to be fully au fait with all the ramifications?

Sure, if we are going to dabble with photoelectricity and the quantization of light.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You whole post was about how I could not possibly know what you were talking about. Surely 'secret' is the right word?

No, I'd say the word is 'ignorance'.

Willful ignorance, at that.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Made a bus journey this morning with rain bucketing it down outside. Looking out the window i observed there were 4 (*5) types of pedestrians out and about:

1. 'The Forward Planning.' The clever chap with the umbrella.
2. 'The Shelter Dodger.' The person taking temporary refuge in a shop.
3. 'The Improviser.' The lady holding the carrier bag ove ...[text shortened]... ing of life, seeking distraction in box sets and economy chocolate).

Did i miss anybody?

I like to just walk in the rain with no cover.

Originally posted by RBHILL
I like to just walk in the rain with no cover.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're an atheist. 😉

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, I'd say the word is 'ignorance'.

Willful ignorance, at that.

What exactly am I 'wilfully ignorant' about? Tell us one thing that I do not know (until you tell us) that you know that is relevant to his post.

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, that's a horrible analogy. I go to the doctor when I need to. I am a diabetic and now use an insulin pump, aka 'modern technology'. You always present theists as simply not knowing any better. Except that we DO 'know better'. I see an appropriate professional whenever my aim exceeds my grasp. But I am not so stupid as you think I am to see a prie ...[text shortened]... ill, just as I don't consult a roofer when my car malfunctions.

Your absurd bias is showing.

I was wondering why my car kept acting up🙂 Sorry to hear about your diabetes, I see there is hope on the horizon in the form of stem cells becoming insulin generators that can be put in the proper place to help with that. Probably won't help present day sufferers but maybe in 20 years it can be dealt with better than today. I feel very lucky to have lived 74 years in really good health, no high blood pressure, cholesterol good and so forth. Of course that can go any time but so far so good. I think I picked the right parents🙂

I just hope there are better strategies for dealing with diabetes in the near future that can help you and millions of others suffering this terrible affliction.

A great singer, Lee Hays, from the group 'the Weavers', a folk group from the 1950's was diabetic and the last concert at Carnegie hall, he had lost both legs and was in wheel chair with a little table with the front covered with cloth. It was so sad. You probably heard of Pete Seeger. the group was Pete Seeger, Lee Hays, Ronnie Gilbert, and Fred Hellerman and then a bunch of other folks after Pete left in the Early 60's. That group ran into trouble with the 'house un-american activities committe' and got black listed, even though they had 2 # 1 hits in 1950, suspected of being communist because Pete had dabbled in it in the 1930's but left soon after but they never believed he actually left and considered him and the group subversive for daring to sing songs of protest. Lee died not too long after that performance.

Originally posted by twhitehead
What exactly am I 'wilfully ignorant' about? Tell us one thing that I do not know (until you tell us) that you know that is relevant to his post.

It's the very same "willful ignorance" that many who are unfairly biased about any group participates in. They can sit back and claim that this group or that group is deviant in some way, but they don't know the first thing about what that group goes through on a daily basis. It's the same "willful ignorance" that caused some white people, mainly older men, to say that black men only want to rape and "defile" white women. It's the same "willful ignorance" that makes many conservatives in this country claim that mexicans are lazy but they want to come to our country only to take our jobs and have their babies here. Atheists consistently claim that religious people are somehow mentally deficient and because of this we shouldn't have the job of teaching your kids. That we somehow can't grasp even the basics of science and technology. You speak of our beliefs as if they were mere fabrications or "fairy tales", when the fact is that you don't have the tiniest idea of just what is involved in actually being a Christian in today's world. We try to "walk the walk" but you disparage us even that. We're little more to you than just "whack jobs". You're full of your own opinions of what we're "about", but you don't actually have the slightest clue and furthermore, you're not even slightly interested in finding out.

And that's the "willful ignorance" I'm talking about.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I was wondering why my car kept acting up🙂 Sorry to hear about your diabetes, I see there is hope on the horizon in the form of stem cells becoming insulin generators that can be put in the proper place to help with that. Probably won't help present day sufferers but maybe in 20 years it can be dealt with better than today. I feel very lucky to have lived ...[text shortened]... up subversive for daring to sing songs of protest. Lee died not too long after that performance.

Thankfully, insulin therapy has come a long way, as has public education about diabetes. Diabetes has gotten more funding because of the sheer numbers of those with Type II, what used to be called 'adult-onset', diabetes. I'm Type I since I was 23 (relatively late since most get this earlier as kids) and I have to take insulin as my body's immune system killed off the cells that make insulin. I've always been fit, and I still work out every other day, and so far I have zero complications. It's just a question of doing what needs to be done to stay as "normal" as possible. The people who get into trouble are the ones who think they can "cheat" once in a while and have that piece of cake or that doughnut. After a while, the cheating becomes a regular thing and the sugar gets to unhealthy levels and stays there, and that's why people get complications (blindness, kidney damage, losing limbs). The secret is trying to keep your sugar as normal as you can, and to that end, I finally went on the pump about ten months ago and my A1c's have been totally awesome (my last one was 6.6 (the best I ever got with MDI's was 7.4) and I'm looking at getting that down into the 5's (without getting a bunch of lows), so so far, so good). Maybe next year (insurance issues, of course) I'll even get a CGM (continuous glucose monitor). Technology is getting better and things are looking better for us because of it.