Look through the Bible and you can find all sorts of reprehensible stuff. Plenty of Christians have killed their wives. The man who started the Church of England is famous for beheading wives.
Fundamentalist Christians are just as scary as fundamentalist Islamicists. They all make pronouncements that are offensive to the sane. You really should stop making these appalling generalizations.
Originally posted by DeepThought Look through the Bible and you can find all sorts of reprehensible stuff. Plenty of Christians have killed their wives. The man who started the Church of England is famous for beheading wives.
Fundamentalist Christians are just as scary as fundamentalist Islamicists. They all make pronouncements that are offensive to the sane. You really should stop making these appalling generalizations.
Yes, but Christianity gives no pretext for violence does it? do you understand the difference? you really should think before using the keyboard!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Yes, but Christianity gives no pretext for violence does it? do you understand the difference? you really should think before using the keyboard!
Well, Christians tend to follow the Bible, and the Bible contains the Old Testament, which contains the Mosaic Law, which allows you to do things like stoning your teenage child if he gets too rebellious.
If Christians can recognize that such laws are archaic and outdated, then they ought to realize that the Qu'ran may have similar laws, and restrain their criticism accordingly. The holy books need to be read in proper historical perspective.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I dunno Whitey my friend, these incidents themselves named by Swiss Gambit seem isolated and unconnected in themselves, the one mentioned by the Doc may also be such, the difference being that Islam gives a pretext for violence, whether its domestic as in the case of a disobedient wife, or national as in the case of Jihad!
Any religion can be bashed by sheer volume of googled links. I'm sure I could find many related to radical-christian cults.
You could respond with the usual links about Atheist dictators who killed millions. Then we could have a competition for the highest body count, etc. etc. and decide who is the biggest scourge of all.
Originally posted by SwissGambit Well, Christians tend to follow the Bible, and the Bible contains the Old Testament, which contains the Mosaic Law, which allows you to do things like stoning your teenage child if he gets too rebellious.
If Christians can recognize that such laws are archaic and outdated, then they ought to realize that the Qu'ran may have similar laws, and restrain their criticism accordingly. The holy books need to be read in proper historical perspective.
mmm, Christians recognise that the Mosaic law is no longer binding, for Christ established a different and superior covenant, thus we no longer offer animal sacrifices for sins, need to submit to circumcision etc etc, However this is not the case with the Islam, for these laws are still very much binding on a Muslim, are widely accepted and practiced. Are we therefore not under duress to condemn such, if it offends our egalitarian sensibilities and our sense of justice in whatever context it is found?
Originally posted by SwissGambit Any religion can be bashed by sheer volume of googled links. I'm sure I could find many related to radical-christian cults.
You could respond with the usual links about Atheist dictators who killed millions. Then we could have a competition for the highest body count, etc. etc. and decide who is the biggest scourge of all.
Yes this is true, no doubt, here is a graph of the worlds worst atrocities, i let you draw your own conclusions
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Yes this is true, no doubt, here is a graph of the worlds worst atrocities, i let you draw your own conclusions
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
From your link, check out this quote about 3/4 of the way down the page:
That's why I was so startled to discover that there is absolutely no pattern to the chart. If I had simply picked 25 countries out of a hat, I could not have gotten a more diverse spread than we've got here. We've got rich countries and poor countries; industrial and agrarian; big and small. We've got people of all colors -- white, black, yellow and brown -- widely represented among both the slaughterers and the slaughterees. We've got Christians, Moslems, Buddhists and Atheists all butchering one another in the name of their various gods or lack thereof.
This is just as I would expect. So much for any one belief system being more of a 'scourge' than another.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie However this is not the case with the Islam, for these laws are still very much binding on a Muslim, are widely accepted and practiced.
I'd like to see some real evidence for this [preferably from sources who actually practice Islam, not the BBC].
As it stands, if you as a Christian can ignore certain outdated and ill-conceived laws in your own holy book, I see no reason why a Muslim cannot do the same.
Originally posted by SwissGambit I'd like to see some real evidence for this [preferably from sources who actually practice Islam, not the BBC].
As it stands, if you as a Christian can ignore certain outdated and ill-conceived laws in your own holy book, I see no reason why a Muslim cannot do the same.
It is not simply a case of ignoring them (in the case of a Christian), they have been superseded by something completely different.
What about what is happening in Swat? I have been there in times of peace, it is one of the most beautiful places on earth, now Islamic fundamentalists have cut a deal with the government of Pakistan, on what basis, that the region is to adopt Sharia Law, why should this be the case if it is unimportant to Islamists?
Originally posted by SwissGambit From your link, check out this quote about 3/4 of the way down the page:[quote]That's why I was so startled to discover that there is absolutely no pattern to the chart. If I had simply picked 25 countries out of a hat, I could not have gotten a more diverse spread than we've got here. We've got rich countries and poor countries; industrial and agrarian; ...[text shortened]... I would expect. So much for any one belief system being more of a 'scourge' than another.
Yes very interesting conclusion indeed! The sheer numbers are horrific!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Yes, but Christianity gives no pretext for violence does it? do you understand the difference? you really should think before using the keyboard!
You are justifying the linking of a crime with a religion on the grounds that in this case the perpetrator was a member of that religion, some verses in the Koran, and the words of extremists. If the standards you are setting for Islam are applied to Christianity then you can reach just the same conclusion. Christian doctrine consists of considerably more than just what is in the Gospels. I disagree that Christianity differs from Islam in this respect.
Originally posted by twhitehead No the facts do not speak for themselves. I went and read the article and there is no evidence whatsoever that it was an honor killing or had anything to do with Islam. So either present more facts or admit that you are wrong.
Can you also tell me under what circumstances some Muslims believe an honor killing is mandated by Allah and present some evidenc ...[text shortened]... d it also mentions that he has been married before. Did he 'honor kill' his previous wife too?
In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and shockingly archaic practice be flourishing in the heart of Europe? The deaths have sparked momentary outrage, but will they change the grim reality for Muslim women?
Here is another website:
http://sheikyermami.com/2008/10/01/does-islam-justify-honor-killings/
If honor killings are not condoned in the Koran, why are all honor killings committed by Muslims?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie It is not simply a case of ignoring them (in the case of a Christian), they have been superseded by something completely different.
What about what is happening in Swat? I have been there in times of peace, it is one of the most beautiful places on earth, now Islamic fundamentalists have cut a deal with the government of Pakistan, on what basi ...[text shortened]... he region is to adopt Sharia Law, why should this be the case if it is unimportant to Islamists?
Not all Muslims want Sharia law. If they did, you wouldn't have to use qualifiers like "Islamic fundamentalist".
The Taliban's version of Islam is only one interpretation of it. It is not necessarily shared by all other, or even the majority of, other Muslims. If anything, they are pushing the fundamentalist interpretation to give them an excuse to govern dictatorially.
I would certainly condemn any law that calls for, say, cutting off the hands of thieves, but it is not proper to condemn an entire belief system over the actions of a lunatic few.
Originally posted by SwissGambit Not all Muslims want Sharia law. If they did, you wouldn't have to use qualifiers like "Islamic [b]fundamentalist".
The Taliban's version of Islam is only one interpretation of it. It is not necessarily shared by all other, or even the majority of, other Muslims. If anything, they are pushing the fundamentalist interpretation to give them an excus ...[text shortened]... , but it is not proper to condemn an entire belief system over the actions of a lunatic few.[/b]
I agree with you; however, a lunatic few is really a 'lunatic few tens-of-millions'.
Originally posted by dystoniac http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html
In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and sho ...[text shortened]... f honor killings are not condoned in the Koran, why are all honor killings committed by Muslims?
From your 2nd link:
Does Islam Justify Honor Killings?
* A better question for these muslim apologists is “What can you use in the koran to stop honor killings?” if in fact, islam doesn’t condone honor killings. So why has islam not been able to stop honor killings? Ask your honor killing neighbors and watch them squirm!
I could just as well ask any Christian here, "Why couldn't Christianity stop Warren Jeffs?" See how stupid that question is?
Muslim Activist Beheads Wife!
18 Feb '09 21:05
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