1. Joined
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    13 Mar '06 14:10
    By JOHN M. BRODER
    LOS ANGELES, March 10
    Three weeks ago, Dr. Wafa Sultan was a largely unknown Syrian-American psychiatrist living outside Los Angeles, nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims.

    Today, thanks to an unusually blunt and provocative interview on Al Jazeera television on Feb. 21, she is an international sensation, hailed as a fresh voice of reason by some, and by others as a heretic and infidel who deserves to die.

    She said her life changed in 1979 when she was a medical student at the University of Aleppo, in northern Syria. At that time the radical Muslim Brotherhood was using terrorism to try to undermine the government of President Hafez al-Assad. Gunmen of the Muslim Brotherhood burst into a classroom at the university and killed her professor as she watched.

    "They shot hundreds of bullets into him, shouting, 'God is great!' " she said. "At that point, I lost my trust in their god and began to question all our teachings.

    See the video here,

    http://tinyurl.com/ze772
  2. Standard memberPalynka
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    13 Mar '06 14:24
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    By JOHN M. BRODER
    LOS ANGELES, March 10
    Three weeks ago, Dr. Wafa Sultan was a largely unknown Syrian-American psychiatrist living outside Los Angeles, nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims.

    Today, thanks to an unusually blunt and provocative interview on Al Jazeera television on Feb. 21, she is an international sensation, ha ...[text shortened]... nd began to question all our teachings.

    See the video here,

    http://tinyurl.com/ze772
    This type of examples are only propaganda.

    Should this change your opinion on the subject? Did it? Such "examples" are not positive because they can be produced quite easily by both sides and they use emotional appeal instead of reasoned argument.

    "nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims"
    "hailed as a fresh voice of reason by some, and by others as a heretic and infidel who deserves to die."

    This type of language shows that such examples are weapons to use to prove one's point. That the Gunmen of the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists and murderers, I'm willing to accept if the facts are true. But the generalisation to Muslims and their teaching is focused because it has appeal to some media.
  3. Standard membertelerion
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    13 Mar '06 15:11
    Originally posted by Palynka
    This type of examples are only propaganda.

    Should this change your opinion on the subject? Did it? Such "examples" are not positive because they can be produced quite easily by both sides and they use emotional appeal instead of reasoned argument.

    "nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims"
    "hailed as a fresh voice of reason by some, a ...[text shortened]... ralisation to Muslims and their teaching is focused because it has appeal to some media.
    I thought she was speaking out against the many violent factions in Islam. I didn't read her statement as an indictment against the all Muslims.
  4. Standard memberPalynka
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    13 Mar '06 15:23
    Originally posted by telerion
    I thought she was speaking out against the many violent factions in Islam. I didn't read her statement as an indictment against the all Muslims.
    Well...have you read the whole interview?

    I found it here:

    http://www.north-of-africa.com/article.php3?id_article=225

    " Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. "

    "It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.[...]

    Host: "I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?"

    Wafa Sultan: "Yes, that is what I mean."
    "
  5. Standard membertelerion
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    13 Mar '06 15:30
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Well...have you read the whole interview?

    I found it here:

    http://www.north-of-africa.com/article.php3?id_article=225

    " Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. "

    "It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle ...[text shortened]... rdness and ignorance of the Muslims?"

    Wafa Sultan: "Yes, that is what I mean."
    "
    Guilty as charged.

    Forget what I wrote earlier.
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    13 Mar '06 15:36
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Well...have you read the whole interview?

    I found it here:

    http://www.north-of-africa.com/article.php3?id_article=225

    " Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. "

    "It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle ...[text shortened]... rdness and ignorance of the Muslims?"

    Wafa Sultan: "Yes, that is what I mean."
    "
    The lady seems to have come to the right conclusion regarding the clash of cultures.
  7. Standard memberPalynka
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    13 Mar '06 15:39
    Originally posted by Nargaguna
    The lady seems to have come to the right conclusion regarding the clash of cultures.
    This stuff is made for people like you, Nargaguna. Keep clapping and nodding your head. That's the point.
  8. Felicific Forest
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    13 Mar '06 16:59
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    By JOHN M. BRODER
    LOS ANGELES, March 10
    Three weeks ago, Dr. Wafa Sultan was a largely unknown Syrian-American psychiatrist living outside Los Angeles, nursing a deep anger and despair about her fellow Muslims.

    Today, thanks to an unusually blunt and provocative interview on Al Jazeera television on Feb. 21, she is an international sensation, ha ...[text shortened]... nd began to question all our teachings.

    See the video here,

    http://tinyurl.com/ze772
    It seems like the lady in question is a "sister in arms" of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, yet another secular liberal fundamentalist.
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    13 Mar '06 17:25
    Originally posted by Palynka
    This stuff is made for people like you, Nargaguna. Keep clapping and nodding your head. That's the point.
    Whilst Islamic propaganda is made for people like you ?
  10. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Mar '06 03:48
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Well...have you read the whole interview?

    I found it here:

    http://www.north-of-africa.com/article.php3?id_article=225

    " Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. "

    "It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle ...[text shortened]... rdness and ignorance of the Muslims?"

    Wafa Sultan: "Yes, that is what I mean."
    "
    I'm pretty sure there's been a few other churches burnt down in the past, and there's been one or two non-muslims that might've killed some people, and I think a few embassies might've been destroyed than just by muslims.

    This schism, this 'war' is not between islam and the west - how could it be when islam is quite capable of operating within western society in many countries without such violence. I think it's a clash between modern and conservative values - Karen Armstrong in her book 'The Battle for God' paints a nice portrait of this 'war' and how it's been raging for some centuries between the modernising, secular forces of Christianity, Judaism and Islam and between the Conservative, 'back to the past' forces of Christianity, Judaism and Islam - yes that's right all three monotheistic religions have their violent zealots, and all three have their liberals.

    Let's not taint an entire culture or belief system on the fanaticism of a few ....
  11. Joined
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    14 Mar '06 13:04
    Originally posted by amannion
    I'm pretty sure there's been a few other churches burnt down in the past, and there's been one or two non-muslims that might've killed some people, and I think a few embassies might've been destroyed than just by muslims.
    As far as I know they rarely, if ever, kill and blow up churches in the name of their religion though, do they?
    And if a Christian/Jew/Other did so wouldn't they be castigated by their leaders and not hailed as martyrs?


    nb. not referring to hundreds of years ago.
  12. Standard memberPalynka
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    14 Mar '06 13:15
    Originally posted by Nargaguna
    Whilst Islamic propaganda is made for people like you ?
    Did I ever support it? Nope.

    Not believing in one type of propaganda doesn't mean one believes in the propaganda of the other side.
  13. Melbourne, Australia
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    15 Mar '06 05:08
    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    As far as I know they rarely, if ever, kill and blow up churches in the name of their religion though, do they?
    And if a Christian/Jew/Other did so wouldn't they be castigated by their leaders and not hailed as martyrs?


    nb. not referring to hundreds of years ago.
    No, can't think of any Christian or Jewish churches burnt down here in Australia, you're right.
    But wait .... come to think of it, no Muslim churches have been burnt down either. What's going on - could it be that I live in a tolerant society where everyone can have their say (and does) without fear of persecution? Could it be that Australian Muslims (as well as all their religious brethren) aren't suicidal maniacs?
    Surely not.

    Or maybe, just maybe, there's a whole world out there - with radicals on every side. I do recall a few radical Jewish extremists taking a few potshots at muslims. I recall a certain Timothy McVeigh spouting some extreme Christian philosophies - and blowing up a couple of hundred US citizens.
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