01 Oct '07 18:35>
Along the lines of thought made popular by C.S. Lewis, has anyone satisfactorily responded to his contention that all needs are exteriorly-driven?
Originally posted by StarrmanPart of this thought dealt with the fact that all of man's desires/needs find their satisfaction in objects outside of himself. Hunger-food, thirsty-water, lonely-companionship, amorous-sex, etc. Part of what he was driving at was to contend with the charge that man's desire for God was self-induced.
If by that he means that we are creatures of stimulus and response, sure, what's the problem here?
Originally posted by FreakyKBHBut that doesn't follow; if the satisfaction of desires like hunger can be external, why should not the satisfaction of some other desire be found in the notion of god? This speaks nothing of origins, but of satisfactions.
Part of this thought dealt with the fact that all of man's desires/needs find their satisfaction in objects outside of himself. Hunger-food, thirsty-water, lonely-companionship, amorous-sex, etc. Part of what he was driving at was to contend with the charge that man's desire for God was self-induced.
Originally posted by StarrmanI may not be representing it in the intended fashion, more likely along the lines of what makes sense to me. The basic two-part gist is that the origin demans satisfaction from outside and the outside exists--- maybe not solely for the satisfaction of the need, but certainly represents a key aspect of the same.
But that doesn't follow; if the satisfaction of desires like hunger can be external, why should not the satisfaction of some other desire be found in the notion of god? This speaks nothing of origins, but of satisfactions.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThere's certainly no necessary connection between the requirement of satisfaction for a desire and the existence of an external satisfier. That's like saying because I need sex there must be women. It might be true both that I need sex and that there are women, but it's certainly not a valid argument.
I may not be representing it in the intended fashion, more likely along the lines of what makes sense to me. The basic two-part gist is that the origin demans satisfaction from outside and the outside exists--- maybe not solely for the satisfaction of the need, but certainly represents a key aspect of the same.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHOne could say that the desire for a god (at least a particular kind of god) stems from the desire not to face up to mortality. Or the desire for relief from our existential fears generally. Or the desire to have answers to existential questions that are not answered simply by examining nature—or at least answers that we find satisfactory. Or the desire to escape from the fact that we make up such answers on our own authority—or choose from answers that others have made up. Or...
Part of this thought dealt with the fact that all of man's desires/needs find their satisfaction in objects outside of himself. Hunger-food, thirsty-water, lonely-companionship, amorous-sex, etc. Part of what he was driving at was to contend with the charge that man's desire for God was self-induced.
Originally posted by StarrmanI don’t know. I find theistic symbology often aesthetically “valid”—but the notion of a supernatural being makes no sense to me. Ergo, I follow the non-dualist streams as they are expressed in several religions. That is, I take the theistic language as aesthetic/symbolic, rather than epistemic.
It seems strange to me, but the more I learn, the more I feel the sky's the limit.
Originally posted by vistesdFor me aesthetic considerations are basically questions of quality; the beauty of things, relativity of judgements, dependency of context, synthetics. Epistemological ones are those of quantity; the measurement of things, limits of arguments, dependency of empirical values, analytics.
I don’t know. I find theistic symbology often aesthetically “valid”—but the notion of a supernatural being makes no sense to me. Ergo, I follow the non-dualist streams as they are expressed in several religions. That is, I take the theistic language as aesthetic/symbolic, rather than epistemic.
For example: Kashmiri Shaivism, much like Christianity, s ...[text shortened]... stemology, though (if that’s what you mean). I haven’t come to a specific conclusion, as I say.
Originally posted by StarrmanThank you! I need to ponder it for awhile, but it strikes me immediately as being on target. Which means that of late, perhaps, I have been trying to separate the two somewhat artificially—especially since I tend to give great weight to the aesthetic (for lack of a better word) side in how I live (more than half the job).
For me aesthetic considerations are basically questions of quality; the beauty of things, relativity of judgements, dependency of context, synthetics. Epistemological ones are those of quantity; the measurement of things, limits of arguments, dependency of empirical values, analytics.
But when the boundary of knowledge and theory grows wide, the advan ...[text shortened]... Quine for a bit maybe) and in one of my more positivist moods I'm sure I'll reKant 😉
Originally posted by FreakyKBHOriginally posted by FreakyKBH
Part of this thought dealt with the fact that all of man's desires/needs find their satisfaction in objects outside of himself. Hunger-food, thirsty-water, lonely-companionship, amorous-sex, etc. Part of what he was driving at was to contend with the charge that man's desire for God was self-induced.
Originally posted by StarrmanThat's like saying because I need sex there must be women.
There's certainly no necessary connection between the requirement of satisfaction for a desire and the existence of an external satisfier. That's like saying because I need sex there must be women. It might be true both that I need sex and that there are women, but it's certainly not a valid argument.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThis is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there were a need for which there
To disprove the argument, one would have to produce a need for which there is no satisfaction.