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    25 Mar '14 13:58
    Sorry for incoming wall of text. It is for those that do not want to click the link.

    http://recoveringfromreligion.org/584-2/

    “Fred Phelps is now the past. The present and the future are for the living. Unfortunately, Fred’s ideas have not died with him, but live on, not just among the members of Westboro Baptist Church, but among the many communities and small minds that refuse to recognize the equality and humanity of our brothers and sisters on this small planet we share. I will mourn his passing, not for the man he was, but for the man he could have been. I deeply mourn the grief and pain felt by my family members denied their right to visit him in his final days. They deserved the right to finally have closure to decades of rejection, and that was stolen from them.

    Even more, I mourn the ongoing injustices against the LGBT community, the unfortunate target of his 23 year campaign of hate. His life impacted many outside the walls of the WBC compound, uniting us across all spectrums of orientation and belief as we realized our strength lies in our commonalities, and not our differences. How many times have communities risen up together in a united wall against the harassment of my family? Differences have been set aside for that cause, tremendous and loving joint efforts mobilized within hours…and because of that, I ask this of everyone – let his death mean something. Let every mention of his name and of his church be a constant reminder of the tremendous good we are all capable of doing in our communities.

    The lessons of my father were not unique to him, nor will this be the last we hear of his words, which are echoed from pulpits as close as other churches in Topeka, Kansas, where WBC headquarters remain, and as far away as Uganda. Let’s end the support of hateful and divisive teachings describing the LGBT community as “less than,” “sinful,” or “abnormal.” Embrace the LGBT community as our equals, our true brothers and sisters, by promoting equal rights for everyone, without exception. My father was a man of action, and I implore us all to embrace that small portion of his faulty legacy by doing the same.”
  2. Joined
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    25 Mar '14 14:02
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Sorry for incoming wall of text. It is for those that do not want to click the link.

    http://recoveringfromreligion.org/584-2/

    “Fred Phelps is now the past. The present and the future are for the living. Unfortunately, Fred’s ideas have not died with him, but live on, not just among the members of Westboro Baptist Church, but among the many communities ...[text shortened]... ion, and I implore us all to embrace that small portion of his faulty legacy by doing the same.”
    He goes where he belongs. He spread hatred and not the true christian love. So he goes where he belongs.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Mar '14 14:17
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Let’s end the support of hateful and divisive teachings describing the LGBT community as “less than,” “sinful,” or “abnormal.”
    "Let's end..." certain "teachings".

    How can this be achieved without undermining the principle of freedom of speech?

    People who think the LGBT community is “sinful” or “abnormal” surely have a right to say so, don't they?
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Mar '14 14:321 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Let's end..." certain "teachings".

    How can this be achieved without undermining the principle of freedom of speech?

    People who think the LGBT community is “sinful” or “abnormal” surely have a right to say so, don't they?
    It is an extension of the idea that the freedom to swing your fist ends at your buddy's nose.

    It is not the speech per se that causes problems although that is stressful enough on the LGBT community.

    The real problem is the REAL haters taking those words to heart and acting on them and killing gay people.

    You have to let people in the KKK have their speeches but you have to control the haters who act on those speeches also.

    Blacks can attest to the stress the KKK caused even when they didn't actively burn down churches and so forth.

    Here is a short NPR bit on hate speech, and where it is banned, like France, Mexico and other countries:

    http://www.npr.org/2011/03/03/134239713/France-Isnt-The-Only-Country-To-Prohibit-Hate-Speech
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Mar '14 14:53
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It is an extension of the idea that the freedom to swing your fist ends at your buddy's nose.

    It is not the speech per se that causes problems although that is stressful enough on the LGBT community.

    The real problem is the REAL haters taking those words to heart and acting on them and killing gay people.

    You have to let people in the KKK have th ...[text shortened]...

    http://www.npr.org/2011/03/03/134239713/France-Isnt-The-Only-Country-To-Prohibit-Hate-Speech
    The freedom of speech principle exists but I don't think it should be restricted by some sort of "freedom not to be stressed and/or offended", do you? Such a right does not exist. Of course, punching someone on the nose, killing gay people, and burning down churches are all criminal acts and should be followed up accordingly.

    If I were in France or Mexico I would oppose the criminalization of speech except where it leads directly to the committing of crimes and therefore forms an integral part of a criminal conspiracy. I oppose the concept of "hate crimes" as well,as it happens. The "hate" should be examined in terms of motive, sure, but there should not be special sentencing for the crimes in question.
  6. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    25 Mar '14 15:08
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Sorry for incoming wall of text. It is for those that do not want to click the link.

    http://recoveringfromreligion.org/584-2/

    “Fred Phelps is now the past. The present and the future are for the living. Unfortunately, Fred’s ideas have not died with him, but live on, not just among the members of Westboro Baptist Church, but among the many communities ...[text shortened]... ion, and I implore us all to embrace that small portion of his faulty legacy by doing the same.”
    I would have just written, "Good riddance."
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    25 Mar '14 15:23
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I would have just written, "Good riddance."
    And although, by writing such a thing, you might have deeply offended members of the Westboro Baptist Church, I believe you have every right to express yourself in this way.
  8. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    25 Mar '14 15:26
    Originally posted by FMF
    And although, by writing such a thing, you might have deeply offended members of the Westboro Baptist Church, I believe you have every right to express yourself in this way.
    I'm not worried about offending a band of trolls. Because that's all they really are. A real-life version of the common internet forum parasite.
  9. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    25 Mar '14 15:38
    Another thing - ever notice that Westboro is fond of drawing lots of stick figures of men having gay sex? And displaying them in public on their protest signs?

    I remember being shocked when our family was watching a religious TV channel (not Westboro, but similar mentality) and they showed footage of gay men making out passionately. It was the kind of stuff that even the most liberal, heathen network will not air.

    They claimed that it was just to motivate people to make a stand against 'depravity' by showing it in all its 'ugly' detail, but I could not help thinking that secretly they got off on watching it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few closet cases amongst Westboro, either.
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    26 Mar '14 08:30
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Let's end..." certain "teachings".

    How can this be achieved without undermining the principle of freedom of speech?

    People who think the LGBT community is “sinful” or “abnormal” surely have a right to say so, don't they?
    he doesn't ask for putting them into internment camps

    he asks us to stop being douchebags, "end" it gradually through education, just like we are "ending" racism. to change our way of thinking and to send a clear message that hate will not be tolerated.


    we still allow kkk to exist. and let them sing about white supremacy all they want. just not in public and not with lynchings and terrorism.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Mar '14 08:57
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he doesn't ask for putting them into internment camps

    he asks us to stop being douchebags, "end" it gradually through education, just like we are "ending" racism. to change our way of thinking and to send a clear message that hate will not be tolerated.


    we still allow kkk to exist. and let them sing about white supremacy all they want. just not in public and not with lynchings and terrorism.
    Prosecute crimes, always. No argument with you there.

    But "douchebags" saying "douchebag" things needs to be tolerated, legally and in principle.

    "Racism" isn't ending any time soon. Whether you tolerate "hate" has no effect on "hate".
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    26 Mar '14 09:041 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Prosecute crimes, always. No argument with you there.

    But "douchebags" saying "douchebag" things needs to be tolerated, legally and in principle.

    "Racism" isn't ending any time soon. Whether you tolerate "hate" has no effect on "hate".
    not really. there is the matter of advocating hate speech.

    for example, there was a scumbag radio host which said a certain individual (who was "attacking jesus"😉 needs to be met in a dark alley by a couple special forces army dudes and beaten within an inch of his life.
    should something like that be protected by free speech?

    ""Racism" isn't ending any time soon."
    it is declining steadily. but that is what i am talking about. people used to speak freely about "them damn niggrz" or "those filthy japs". now we ostracize someone like that. we let them know it is not acceptable. we look at them like they are curiosities.
    this is the first step. when something is no longer acceptable in society, it will slowly be repressed. like farting in public. sure, people will always fart. but for the sake of a smooth functioning of society, i, like everyone else, do it in private.

    that is why i say that tolerance towards racism or any bigotry has a big impact on the practical repercussions of hate. i couldn't care less what a kkk member really thinks when he is alone.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Mar '14 09:05
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    not really. there is the matter of advocating hate speech.

    for example, there was a scumbag radio host which said a certain individual (who was "attacking jesus"😉 needs to be met in a dark alley by a couple special forces army dudes and beaten within an inch of his life.should something like that be protected by free speech?
    I covered that in an earlier post.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    26 Mar '14 09:11
    Michael Phelps the winner of 22 Olympic medals (18 Gold) is the only Phelps I have any knowledge of.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
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    26 Mar '14 10:27
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Michael Phelps the winner of 22 Olympic medals (18 Gold) is the only Phelps I have any knowledge of.
    So you secretly approve of the tactics of that despicable church in Westboro.
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