1. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Joined
    05 Mar '02
    Moves
    32455
    20 Jul '06 20:04
    An article in today's NY Times detailed a plan by German scientists
    to reconstruct the Neanderthal genome (for reference, please see the
    Science section, written by Nicholas Wade).

    This poses some interesting ethical and religious questions. First, it
    would seem to confront Creationists: if we humans have always existed
    in our current form (in God's image), then who are these Neanderthals
    who generally conform to our appearance, but have some significant
    biological differences? If they are a 'lost tribe' of humans, then
    what accounts for the differences in both neurological and physiological
    differences that have led scientists to classify them as a different
    species (based on mitochondrial DNA evidence)?

    Furthermore, the current stance of most mainstream religions (and,
    explicitly in Christianity) is that humankind (homo sapiens) reflexts
    the culmination of Creation (irrespective of one's position on Young or
    Old Earth theories). Consequently, as humans are obligated to treat
    all other humans with a certain dignity, other animals are not subject
    to the same treatment; that is, the prohibition on murder does extend
    to a fellow human, but not to a bear, chimp, or cardinal. Would this
    be extended to a Neanderthal and on what Biblical basis would this
    be justified?

    Nemesio
  2. Joined
    24 Nov '04
    Moves
    63
    20 Jul '06 20:45
    I would say that from my view of Christianity this poses no problems. Sure, Neanderthal man existed before Homo sapiens. Sure, he was intelligent and social. But, he wasn't human. He didn't, by my beliefs, have a soul, because God only gave humans souls.

    Scientists can create cells, they can modify DNA, but I very much doubt they'd be able to make a fully conscious Neanderthal man, and if they did, I reckon God would consider them human and give them a human soul anyway (especially as it would have to be implanted into a human mother) so it would probably have human character anyway.

    That's just what I think, but I don't expect a lot of people would agree. Anyway, it's an interesting question.
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    20 Jul '06 21:38
    Originally posted by borissa
    Sure, Neanderthal man existed before Homo sapiens.
    Did he exist in the Garden of Eden, subject to Adam's rule?
  4. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    20 Jul '06 23:10
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    An article in today's NY Times detailed a plan by German scientists
    to reconstruct the Neanderthal genome (for reference, please see the
    Science section, written by Nicholas Wade).

    This poses some interesting ethical and religious questions. First, it
    would seem to confront Creationists: if we humans have always existed
    in our current form (in God's ...[text shortened]... e extended to a Neanderthal and on what Biblical basis would this
    be justified?

    Nemesio
    Some very interesting moralistic questions. I agree that the reproduction of a neanderthal man would not undermine christianity in any way, the same way that the dinosaurs of hakaman's thread do not disprove god. Rationality, of course, does have something to say though, once you have god, and therefore miracles etc, then you have no need of logical deduction, since miracles are by nature not logical.

    It would be an interesting scientific endeavour, and I'm sure that alot could be learned about our evolution, simply from mapping the DNA. I don't know what rights these people would have. Perhaps something akin to the Delta double negatives of "Brave New World"?
  5. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    20 Jul '06 23:30
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Some very interesting moralistic questions. I agree that the reproduction of a neanderthal man would not undermine christianity in any way, the same way that the dinosaurs of hakaman's thread do not disprove god. Rationality, of course, does have something to say though, once you have god, and therefore miracles etc, then you have no need of logical d ...[text shortened]... ple would have. Perhaps something akin to the Delta double negatives of "Brave New World"?
    Don't you wish that every time some rabid fundies got to yammering you could just slip them a soma tablet?
  6. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    23619
    20 Jul '06 23:45
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Some very interesting moralistic questions. I agree that the reproduction of a neanderthal man would not undermine christianity in any way, the same way that the dinosaurs of hakaman's thread do not disprove god. Rationality, of course, does have something to say though, once you have god, and therefore miracles etc, then you have no need of logical d ...[text shortened]... ple would have. Perhaps something akin to the Delta double negatives of "Brave New World"?
    Scot: " ..... once you have god, and therefore miracles etc, then you have no need of logical deduction, since miracles are by nature not logical."

    "Miracles are by nature not logical"

    Miracles cannot be explained by humans. This however does not mean they are "not logical" and they are certainly not "not logical" by their very nature.

    Your statement that once you have God you don't need logical deduction is beyond the scope of my understanding. Could you please elaborate on this ?
  7. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    Tha Brotha Hood
    Joined
    13 Dec '04
    Moves
    49088
    21 Jul '06 00:19
    Originally posted by ivanhoe


    Miracles cannot be explained by humans. This however does not mean they are "not logical" and they are certainly not "not logical" by their very nature.
    Sure they are. What is a miracle if not a nomological impossibility?
  8. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    49970
    21 Jul '06 00:19
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Scot: " ..... once you have god, and therefore miracles etc, then you have no need of logical deduction, since miracles are by nature not logical."

    "Miracles are by nature not logical"

    Miracles cannot be explained by humans. This however does not mean they are "not logical" and they are certainly not "not logical" by their very nature.

    Your stateme ...[text shortened]... deduction is beyond the scope of my understanding. Could you please elaborate on this ?
    The alternative to miracles being 'not logical' is that they are 'logical'.
    Are you suggesting miracles are logical?

    If so, could you give me some examples of 'miracle logic'?
    (This should be a hoot.)
  9. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    21 Jul '06 00:33
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Scot: " ..... once you have god, and therefore miracles etc, then you have no need of logical deduction, since miracles are by nature not logical."

    "Miracles are by nature not logical"

    Miracles cannot be explained by humans. This however does not mean they are "not logical" and they are certainly not "not logical" by their very nature.

    Your stateme ...[text shortened]... deduction is beyond the scope of my understanding. Could you please elaborate on this ?
    Logic dictates that you cannot make a woman from the rib of a man.
  10. Forgotten
    Joined
    15 Sep '04
    Moves
    4459
    21 Jul '06 03:561 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    An article in today's NY Times detailed a plan by German scientists
    to reconstruct the Neanderthal genome (for reference, please see the
    Science section, written by Nicholas Wade).

    This poses some interesting ethical and religious questions. First, it
    would seem to confront Creationists: if we humans have always existed
    in our current form (in God's e extended to a Neanderthal and on what Biblical basis would this
    be justified?

    Nemesio
    Facinating Nem.Couldn't they simply go to the General Forum to see Neanderthals?
  11. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    21 Jul '06 04:09
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Logic dictates that you cannot make a woman from the rib of a man.
    Thats right, logic dictates that all living beings came from nonliving matter or at least that is what science has observed in the past.
  12. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    21 Jul '06 04:19
    Originally posted by whodey
    Thats right, logic dictates that all living beings came from nonliving matter or at least that is what science has observed in the past.
    It is an interpolation, but one that makes logical sense, and is statistically probable.
  13. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    21 Jul '06 04:22
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    It is an interpolation, but one that makes logical sense, and is statistically probable.
    The same can be said for the existence of God.
  14. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    21 Jul '06 04:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    The same can be said for the existence of God.
    Don't forget Muffy!
  15. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    49970
    21 Jul '06 04:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    The same can be said for the existence of God.
    What?
    That the notion of god makes logical sense and is statistically probable?
    What are you smoking?
    A supernatural creator makes as much logical sense as fairies in the bottom of the garden, the flying spaghetti monster, or ... muffy!
Back to Top