"Pope Benedict used his annual speech to Rome's cardinals and bishops on Monday (Dec. 20) to ask them to reflect on the church's responsibility in the child sex abuse scandals. Benedict qualified his mea culpa by stating that the scandal (in which priests who sexually abused children were often ignored or protected by the Catholic Church) was partly justified by the broader social context. Benedict said that while the church accepted some responsibility, he could not be silent about ''the context of these times.... There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society." Benedict claimed that as recently as the 1970s, "pedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children." In this climate, the Catholic Church's actions were merely reflecting the moral relativism of the times: "It was maintained — even within the realm of Catholic theology — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself," Benedict said."
Originally posted by Kewpieare these things true? was paedophilia theorised as being fully in conformity with man in the 1970's? Has there not also been attempts to eradicate concepts of good and evil? Only recently i was reading a review of the Gates of Janus written by serial killer Ian Brady in which he was being praised for doing just that. Child pornography has as far as I am aware, never been considered normal by society and of course the Pope is merely looking to diminish the Catholic churches responsibility.
"Pope Benedict used his annual speech to Rome's cardinals and bishops on Monday (Dec. 20) to ask them to reflect on the church's responsibility in the child sex abuse scandals. Benedict qualified his mea culpa by stating that the scandal (in which priests who sexually abused children were often ignored or protected by the Catholic Church) was partly justified ...[text shortened]... — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself," Benedict said."
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Back to the New Testament which is suppose to by the Christian's "constitution" so to speak.
The Apostle Paul writes that in latter times the false teaching of forbidding spiritual workers to be married would be a demonic teaching.
"But the Spirit says expressely that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, of men who are branded in thier own conscience as with a hot iron ... Who forbid marriage ... " (First Timothy 4:1)
1.) The problem here is not a worker of God voluntarily deciding to forego marriage. Rather the error is a legality made forcing the supposed spiritual worker to not marry.
2.) Forbidding marraige upon those who desire this human experience and need it, opens the door to all kinds of sexual perversness.
This is not to say allowing marriage will eradicate all instances of sexual greed and perversion. But is should set some limitation on these sins because of creating a more condusive environment for human sexual development.
3.) The Apostle is saying in essence - "Make no religious LAW commanding that a spiritual worker cannot have a married partner."
Those with self control may, like Paul himself, choose to live a single life. But it is not mandatory or legal. And it is the enfluence of demonic forces like the deep occult, which prompted the forbidding of marraige.
If you forbid marraige among Christian workers you should not be surprised if they are tempted to satisfy their sexual needs in perverse ways outside marraige.
The Roman Catholic Church should have of course given heed to the Bible. But that is an observation going back to the Reformation and before.
Do not make it mandatory that those desiring to labor unto God cannot have a marriage partner. The Apostle Peter had a wife.
We do know that Peter had a wife. During His earthly ministry, Jesus came to Peter's house and healed "his wife's mother" (Matthew 8:14
- 5; Mark 1:30-31). This proves that Peter had a wife.
In 1Corinthians 9:5
, Paul asked, "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?" Cephas was another name for Peter. In this verse it speaks of him leading about a wife. Most likely, this meant that he took her around with him to different places as he traveled.
copied from Learn the Bible - http://www.learnthebible.org/peters-wife.html
Originally posted by sonshipyes, on this we agree.
Back to the [b]New Testament which is suppose to by the Christian's "constitution" so to speak.
The Apostle Paul writes that in latter times the false teaching of forbidding spiritual workers to be married would be a demonic teaching.
"But the Spirit says expressely that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceivin ...[text shortened]... te]
copied from Learn the Bible - http://www.learnthebible.org/peters-wife.html
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Originally posted by sonshipDenying marriage causes men to rape young boys? What's your take on same-sex marriage?
Back to the [b]New Testament which is suppose to by the Christian's "constitution" so to speak.
The Apostle Paul writes that in latter times the false teaching of forbidding spiritual workers to be married would be a demonic teaching.
"But the Spirit says expressely that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceivin te]
copied from Learn the Bible - http://www.learnthebible.org/peters-wife.html
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Denying marriage causes men to rape young boys? What's your take on same-sex marriage?
It contributes to all kinds of alternative ways for those under such a legal bondage to satisfy their desires. This should be obvious. Look at prisons.
I don't count these "same sex marriages" as real marriages.
I think this is an experiment which tampers with what God has ordained.
When you speak of a union between a male and a female then I consider that a to qualify as a marraige in the eyes of God.
So it is a big social experiment in my view.
Originally posted by sonshipAnd one needs to remember that satan is the ruler of it all right now and he is doing EVERYTHiNG he can do and come up with to remove humans from God.Denying marriage causes men to rape young boys? What's your take on same-sex marriage?
It contributes to all kinds of alternative ways for those under such a legal bondage to satisfy their desires. This should be obvious. Look at prisons.
I don't count these "same sex marriages" as real marriages.
I think this is an experiment ...[text shortened]... qualify as a marraige in the eyes of God.
So it is a big social experiment in my view.
What was bad and looked down on by most even just a few years ago, is now ok and if you go against it because of morals and knowing how God's views it, you are now "out of touch or still living in the dark ages" they say.
"Anything goes", "don't stifle your childrens growth with rules or regulations" and if you have a problem with it "you are politically incorrect".
The Bible clearly says that it is "to mans own ruin for them to rule themselves" and we now see that happening.
When the biggest church in the world says and does this type of morally wrong stuff and have no clue it seems to God's view, there is the proof that the Bible is right in it's teachings about the way the world would go..
Originally posted by Conrau Kyes but that is not to say that there is no correlation, is it.
I do not see how mandatory celibacy leads to pedophilia.
Roman Catholic tradition for the last 1000 years, though not before[citation needed], dictates that only unmarried men can be ordained into the Catholic priesthood, a practice known as celibacy. In modern parlance, celibacy has come to be associated with the very specific practice of abstaining from sexuality. According to modern church teachings, clergy are expected to adhere to both these practices. Exceptions are sometimes made to this rule but this is a relatively rare occurrence.[27]
A 2005 article in the Western People, a conservative Irish newspaper proposed that celibacy itself had contributed to the abuse problem. There is a suggestion that the institution of celibacy has created a "morally superior" status that is easily misapplied by abusive priests. According to this paper, "The Irish Church’s prospect of a recovery is zero for as long as bishops continue blindly to toe the Vatican line of Pope Benedict XVI that a male celibate priesthood is morally superior to other sections of society."[28] Christoph Schönborn and Hans Küng have also said that priestly celibacy could be one of the causes of the sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church.[29]
Most information available involves adolescents of the age of 11 years and older which is the age group most frequently abused. It has been asserted that for some priests the development of their sexual feelings stopped changing when they entered celibacy, so they act as if they were adolescents themselves.[30]
Studies comparing sexual abuse among married Protestant and Jewish clergy and celibate Catholic clergy show similar rates.
wikipedia
look at this last statement, is that really true? If so, on what studies is it based, if its not true,then we must acknowledge that there is a link between mandatory celibacy and paedophilia.
Originally posted by Conrau KHe (Freud) wrote that they (prepubescent children) usually were the subject of desire when a weak person "makes use of such substitutes" or when an uncontrollable instinct which will not allow delay seeks immediate gratification and cannot find a more appropriate object
I do not see how mandatory celibacy leads to pedophilia.
wikipedia
could mandatory celibacy be the catalyst for such an action for clearly a person who has placed themselves under such a vow has no recourse to any appropriate object.
Also consider this,
A perpetrator of child sexual abuse is commonly assumed to be and referred to as a pedophile; however, there may be other motivations for the crime[52] (such as stress, marital problems, or the unavailability of an adult partner)*
*Howells, K. (1981). "Adult sexual interest in children: Considerations relevant to theories of aetiology", Adult sexual interest in children. 55-94.
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I do not see how mandatory celibacy leads to pedophilia.
I think you need to consider if it IS celibacy. Since it is a legal and mandatory requirement rather than the real voluntary choice of one to remain celibate, perhaps we are too idealistic to call it celibacy.
At least in the case of too many, the obligation to be without a wife, has apparently forced them to explore other avaliable avenues as a sexual outlet.
You may win the case on the definition of words.
My point is that the New Testament forbade the making of such laws forbidding marriage to those desiring spiritual service.
Jesus said that some made THEMSELVES eunuchs for the kingdom of God.
The opperative phrase there is that they made THEMSELVES such (Matt. 19:12).
Realistically, we have to say in Roman Catholicism OTHERS made them eunuchs by a legality and they simply could not take it.
Originally posted by KewpieThe web site I found this on (http://www.livescience.com/9179-pope-blames-1970s-society-pedophile-priests.html) includes sidebar articles on new theories on why men love breasts and alien-like skulls excavated in Mexico. This isn't striking me as a legitimate news source. Neither is a blog post, which is what the original link seems to point at. Is there a reputable source for this?
"Pope Benedict used his annual speech to Rome's cardinals and bishops on Monday (Dec. 20) to ask them to reflect on the church's responsibility in the child sex abuse scandals. Benedict qualified his mea culpa by stating that the scandal (in which priests who sexually abused children were often ignored or protected by the Catholic Church) was partly justified ...[text shortened]... — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself," Benedict said."
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs paedophilia a "normal" urge to man? (ie no matter how small the
are these things true? was paedophilia theorised as being fully in conformity with man in the 1970's? Has there not also been attempts to eradicate concepts of good and evil? Only recently i was reading a review of the Gates of Janus written by serial killer Ian Brady in which he was being praised for doing just that. Child pornography has as far ...[text shortened]... iety and of course the Pope is merely looking to diminish the Catholic churches responsibility.
percentage can it be said to be naturally occurring?)
I say that is irrelevant.
The crime is against the children; whether motivated by natural or
unnatural urges it is a crime. The Pope's excuse of 70's morality is
deplorable.