1. Standard memberknightmeister
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    09 Mar '12 20:471 edit
    What's really missing from the faith versus works debate between rajk99 and myself and others is an understanding that it is not faith nor works that saves anyone.

    This might sound silly and preposterous at first but think about it. It's actually GOD who saves. If God does not save us then no amount of faith or works or anything can help. Salvation is a work of God not men.


    So Rajk , would you at least agree that it is God and God alone who saves? Or do you think you can save yourself?

    Of course , even you rajk would have to admit that it is God who saves , yes?

    Once you have got to this point then you will realize that salvation is always a work of grace. Would you admit this rajk?

    Once you realise that salvation is about the grace of God then you are on the right path to understanding something important.

    Let's see how far you will go with this one.
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    09 Mar '12 20:57
    Ephesians 2:8-10
    Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)

    8 You have been saved by God's love and kindness because you believed. It was not because of anything you did, but it was a gift from God.

    9 You were not saved by trying to do what the law says. So no one can be proud about it.

    10 God has made us. In Jesus Christ God made us so that we can do good things. He planned that we should live that way.

    This is pretty clear....
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Mar '12 21:28
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Ephesians 2:8-10
    Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)

    8 You have been saved by God's love and kindness because you believed. It was not because of anything you did, but it was a gift from God.

    9 You were not saved by trying to do what the law says. So no one can be proud about it.

    10 God has made us. In Jesus Christ God made us so that we can do good things. He planned that we should live that way.

    This is pretty clear....
    How does one get eternal life?
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Mar '12 21:29
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    What's really missing from the faith versus works debate between rajk99 and myself and others is an understanding that it is not faith nor works that saves anyone.

    This might sound silly and preposterous at first but think about it. It's actually GOD who saves. If God does not save us then no amount of faith or works or anything can help. Salvation ...[text shortened]... t path to understanding something important.

    Let's see how far you will go with this one.
    Once you believe in the true teachings of Christ you are on you way to something important.
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    09 Mar '12 21:421 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    How does one get eternal life?
    By doing all one can both physically and mentally to serve your God. Then if he approves he will give you the gift of life. NOTHING we can do will EARN that gift but by doing what he ask, out of love he MAY give it too us. He OWES us nothing...
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    09 Mar '12 21:59
    Originally posted by galveston75
    By doing all one can both physically and mentally to serve your God. Then if he approves he will give you the gift of life. NOTHING we can do will EARN that gift but by doing what he ask, out of love he MAY give it too us. He OWES us nothing...
    I believe that is the reason its termed, undeserved kindness.
  7. Standard memberknightmeister
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    09 Mar '12 22:15
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Once you believe in the true teachings of Christ you are on you way to something important.
    Why do you always sidestep anything that might cause you a problem?

    The point I am making here is that everything is dependent on God's grace. No matter which way you look at it. It can never be anything other than a gift whatever theology you believe.

    Let's face it you cannot even breath if it wasn't for God's grace.

    Even your so called "true teachings of christ" are dependent on God's grace.
  8. Standard memberknightmeister
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    09 Mar '12 22:241 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    How does one get eternal life?
    You don't "get" eternal life -it is given to you and you receive it gracefully and humbly. Once you receive God's eternal Holy Spirit through faith then works will naturally follow , as will fruits of the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit.

    One cannot manufacture a change of heart in yourself unless God's Spirit is active within you. My take on you Rajk is that you focus on works exclusively and won't talk about the Holy Spirit because you find the whole thing a bit threatening. This is understandable. The work of the Spirit is a bit unsettling and different , but nevertheless Jesus said that we cannot enter the kingdom unless we have been born again of the Spirit.

    It's quite clear. And you cannot be born again just by working your butt off doing things for the poor - no matter how noble and great it is - you cannot be born again unless God helps you. It's a work of the Spirit - so let's get talking about the Holy Spirit for a change - you seem to have nothing to say about Him.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Mar '12 22:25
    Originally posted by galveston75
    By doing all one can both physically and mentally to serve your God. Then if he approves he will give you the gift of life. NOTHING we can do will EARN that gift but by doing what he ask, out of love he MAY give it too us. He OWES us nothing...
    Thank you. You/we, all of mankind has to please God before we get eternal life.
    End of Story.

    How we go about doing that is up to the individual.

    Im tried of repeating the same thing over and over so thats it for this thread.
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    09 Mar '12 22:39
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I believe that is the reason its termed, undeserved kindness.
    Yep.....for sure.
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    09 Mar '12 22:49
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    You don't "get" eternal life -it is given to you and you receive it gracefully and humbly. Once you receive God's eternal Holy Spirit through faith then works will naturally follow , as will fruits of the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit.

    One cannot manufacture a change of heart in yourself unless God's Spirit is active within you. My take on you Raj ...[text shortened]... talking about the Holy Spirit for a change - you seem to have nothing to say about Him.
    what are the key points that make eternal life desirable?
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    09 Mar '12 23:151 edit
    Why eternal life? The eternal life the Bible speaks of is two fold. On is as a spirit creature and one is fleshly.
    Before Jesus came to earth no human ever knew of a heavenly hope. But with Jesus coming to earth he promised that a finite number would be chosen to serve with him as co rulers in heaven after they would have died and lost their human fleshly bodies.
    Mankind in general will not go to heaven but will either remain here on earth and never see death and the rest who have died over the centuries would have a chance to be resurrected to be judged and then either gain life or be denied it and that depends on their heart and actions.
    This will happen after armegeddon.
    So why would one want to live forever? First question would be why not and who would chose to die and not live?
    The Bible promisses that once we are out of this system and in the future after armegeddon that all would return to their youth, with perfect health, no crime or dangers and all that any human would need to be happy would be provided by our Father and his son Jesus.
    Why would any human not want that?
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
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    09 Mar '12 23:17
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Thank you. You/we, all of mankind has to please God before we get eternal life.
    End of Story.

    How we go about doing that is up to the individual.

    Im tried of repeating the same thing over and over so thats it for this thread.
    Im tried of repeating the same thing over and over so thats it for this thread.

    ----------rajk------------------------

    So why don't you try engaging in a debate then instead of just repeating yourself? You would find it much more interesting and you might learn something and we might learn from you.
  14. Standard memberknightmeister
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    09 Mar '12 23:18
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    what are the key points that make eternal life desirable?
    LOL ! Er ...joy , peace , indescribable love..........to name a few.
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    09 Mar '12 23:392 edits
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    LOL ! Er ...joy , peace , indescribable love..........to name a few.
    thats just a series of words, how do they apply to a functional real life eternity?

    where is your indescribable love coming from and how will it keep you engaged forever? try describing it. joy? joy in what, what joys will last forever? peace sounds good but without anything to juxtapose it against peace looses all meaning, the same for joy and anything else that is good or bad that doesnt have an apposing emotions to give its negative meaning.



    have you ever noticed that the only people searching for eternal life in fiction are the villans?


    you wont be LOLing much after 98 billion years of the same people and the same ef'ing jokes.
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