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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member knightmeister
    knightmeister
    03 Mar '07 17:40
    Yet another way of thinking about nothing would be this...

    We know that something has happened and/or that existence exists. So what if we imagine an alternative scenario? Let's say instead of existence ----drum roll-----non-existence. Nothing happens at all. No anything.

    Was/Is this scenario really a possibility? Was it inevitable that existence would exist? Or was it just likely? Maybe you think that existence managed to force itself into existence against all the odds? Or maybe non-existence will eventually win and re-instate everything back to it's true non-existent "state"? Perhaps , existence has won the final battle and will now existence always permanently?

    Personally , I think the most likely scenario is that existence has always existed or is permanent and non-existence never really gets a look in at all.

    Anyway , I promised eatmybishop that I would do another thread. This is kind of the nothing-o-tron from the other end. This way of looking at nothing is trying to imagine ..."what if NOTHING had ever been".

    I would be interested to hear from the Something from Nothingers what they feel the basic probability was that existence would exist from zilch (and why)?
  2. 03 Mar '07 18:04
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Yet another way of thinking about nothing would be this...

    We know that something has happened and/or that existence exists. So what if we imagine an alternative scenario? Let's say instead of existence ----drum roll-----non-existence. Nothing happens at all. No anything.

    Was/Is this scenario really a possibility? Was it inevitable that existenc ...[text shortened]... what they feel the basic probability was that existence would exist from zilch (and why)?
    This is interesting because at one time in the past I tried, in vain, to imagine the existance of nothingness. I think it's the same as trying to comprehend infinity.

    According to the bible God created everything through faith, or by faith.
    Appearently there was nothing. I don't think it can be said logically that anything is made FROM nothing. I think it is better said that there was nothing and then everything was made, not from nothing, but by faith was everything made.
  3. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    03 Mar '07 18:50
    Originally posted by josephw
    This is interesting because at one time in the past I tried, in vain, to imagine the existance of nothingness. I think it's the same as trying to comprehend infinity.

    According to the bible God created everything through faith, or by faith.
    Appearently there was nothing. I don't think it can be said logically that anything is made FROM nothing. I think ...[text shortened]... was nothing and then everything was made, not from nothing, but by faith was everything made.
    Our universe abhors a vacuum even in our thinking it isn't done easily if at all, our views one subject changes when replaced with another set of ideas.
    Kelly
  4. Standard member knightmeister
    knightmeister
    03 Mar '07 18:56
    Originally posted by josephw
    This is interesting because at one time in the past I tried, in vain, to imagine the existance of nothingness. I think it's the same as trying to comprehend infinity.

    According to the bible God created everything through faith, or by faith.
    Appearently there was nothing. I don't think it can be said logically that anything is made FROM nothing. I think ...[text shortened]... was nothing and then everything was made, not from nothing, but by faith was everything made.
    But it's logically impossible for God to create existence out of nothing because for there to be nothing God would have to not exist. Nothing means nothing and that includes God. However , if you mean he created the universe where there was no universe before then I would agree.
  5. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    03 Mar '07 19:01
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    But it's logically impossible for God to create existence out of nothing because for there to be nothing God would have to not exist. Nothing means nothing and that includes God. However , if you mean he created the universe where there was no universe before then I would agree.
    I believe that was what he said, that God did it in faith, meaning that God was here and God used faith.
    Kelly
  6. 03 Mar '07 19:25
    This thread is destined to be an idiot magnet, I can sense it.
  7. 03 Mar '07 19:39
    Originally posted by Starrman
    This thread is destined to be an idiot magnet, I can sense it.
    Then you better not post here again! lol
  8. 03 Mar '07 19:40
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I believe that was what he said, that God did it in faith, meaning that God was here and God used faith.
    Kelly
    Does God use faith? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that he uses faith? I think the Bible only says that God creates through the use of words. For me, faith is something we cling to because faith is reliant on a higher power that we cannot fully fathom. God, on the other hand, is that higher power so if he uses faith who is he placing his faith in other than his own power?
  9. 03 Mar '07 19:44
    Originally posted by Starrman
    This thread is destined to be an idiot magnet, I can sense it.
    Who you callin an idiote? I tak ofense to that ther coment. Wese plenty smart thnks for askin. I only got three words for ya and that is, "Goode riddins"!
  10. 03 Mar '07 20:02
    Originally posted by whodey
    Does God use faith? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that he uses faith? I think the Bible only says that God creates through the use of words. For me, faith is something we cling to because faith is reliant on a higher power that we cannot fully fathom. God, on the other hand, is that higher power so if he uses faith who is he placing his faith in other than his own power?
    I think you are correct. Hebrews 11:3 says Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    And verse 1 gives the definition of faith.
    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    It appears that God made everything from things we can't see.
  11. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    03 Mar '07 20:50
    Originally posted by whodey
    Does God use faith? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that he uses faith? I think the Bible only says that God creates through the use of words. For me, faith is something we cling to because faith is reliant on a higher power that we cannot fully fathom. God, on the other hand, is that higher power so if he uses faith who is he placing his faith in other than his own power?
    Quote
    "According to the bible God created everything through faith, or by faith. "

    I believe I was only pointing out what was said.
    Kelly
  12. 03 Mar '07 22:36
    Originally posted by josephw
    This is interesting because at one time in the past I tried, in vain, to imagine the existance of nothingness. I think it's the same as trying to comprehend infinity.

    According to the bible God created everything through faith, or by faith.
    Appearently there was nothing. I don't think it can be said logically that anything is made FROM nothing. I think ...[text shortened]... was nothing and then everything was made, not from nothing, but by faith was everything made.
    where did faith come from... nothing..?
  13. 03 Mar '07 22:47
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Yet another way of thinking about nothing would be this...

    We know that something has happened and/or that existence exists. So what if we imagine an alternative scenario? Let's say instead of existence ----drum roll-----non-existence. Nothing happens at all. No anything.

    Was/Is this scenario really a possibility? Was it inevitable that existenc ...[text shortened]... what they feel the basic probability was that existence would exist from zilch (and why)?
    it's very simple knight, either there has always been something or then something did indeed come out of nothing... i can see what you're asking but i don't think you'll ever find an answer, not in this lifetime anyway...

    let's just say nothing did exist (or something didn't exist) and only nothing, will it always remain nothing, how about after a billion years, will it still be just nothing..? your question is basically, where did it all come from..? where was the very first spark of life..? even more amazing, how did that tiny spark become us..? you're question's just too big, it will just give you a headache trying to solve, it's no different from saying where did time start..?

    i think the problem you have here is viewing time as a line of start to finish.... maybe there is no time, maybe it's all happening now, past, present, future, with that in mind you question pays no relevance, something has always existed because you cannot step out of the present
  14. Standard member knightmeister
    knightmeister
    03 Mar '07 23:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    it's very simple knight, either there has always been something or then something did indeed come out of nothing... i can see what you're asking but i don't think you'll ever find an answer, not in this lifetime anyway...

    let's just say nothing did exist (or something didn't exist) and only nothing, will it always remain nothing, how about after a bil no relevance, something has always existed because you cannot step out of the present
    it's very simple knight, either there has always been something or then something did indeed come out of nothing... i can see what you're asking but i don't think you'll ever find an answer, not in this lifetime anyway... BISHOP

    I'm not looking for an answer. I agree with the two basic options that you suggest and I think that simple logic dictates that something from nothing is either very unlikely or impossible. Therefore to me eternal existence has always seemed very very likely.

    In the Bible it points out that the eternal nature of God is self evident within existence. The reason why I pursue this is because it's an area where belief in an eternal God (or at least eternal existence) is actually not that crazy and it's entertaining watching atheists trying to explain S from N. My overall feeling is that if the idea of eternal existence was not suggestive of God but was neutral then many atheists would find the concept much more likely than the S from N idea. My theory is that the thought process behind the S from N idea is..."we can't allow God to look possible , therefore eternity must be a silly idea , therefore S from N must be ". To me it's got a lot to do with prior assumptions and not so much logic.

    But of course they would never ever admit this because as we all know ..all atheists are logical and objective and all theists are biased fools.....or at least that's the mantra.
  15. 04 Mar '07 11:56
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    it's very simple knight, either there has always been something or then something did indeed come out of nothing... i can see what you're asking but i don't think you'll ever find an answer, not in this lifetime anyway... BISHOP

    I'm not looking for an answer. I agree with the two basic options that you suggest and I think that simple logic dictates ...[text shortened]... al and objective and all theists are biased fools.....or at least that's the mantra.
    you are saying god is eternal and has always existed; that's no different from an athesists point of view of saying it all came from nothing... why do you put your theory on a pedestal..? neither can be proved and none is more valid than the other